Charles to be crowned King with holy oil from Jerusalem – Times of India (m.timesofindia.com)

Gem, might I ask a sincere question, without any polemical intent? I’m genuinely curious to know your view of the moments in the Old Testament which seem to contradict, at Yahweh’s own bequest, the 2nd Commandment: most particularly, the twin golden cherubim the Lord orders placed on the Ark of the Covenant and the Bronze Serpent Moses erected in the desert, pursuant to the Lord’s command. I’d also be curious (though here, I might have some intuition) of what you make of the pictoral ornamentation which is recorded in Solomon’s temple.

Or why all the golden objects being golden at all, why do the priests need the finest silk to wear etc. Why can’t they just be kind hearted righteous people without dripping in expense

Note:
My comment above is not to support any church of any denomination and their practices.

It is a comment on the OT temple, that’s all.

The temple on earth was reflective of believers on earth – when this is understood then the Spiritual temple coming down from heaven takes on a new meaning and can be seen for what it truly is!

P.S. – Not trying to disagree with you.

VC’s platform doesn’t provide enough space – and to divide and post it into parts can be a nightmare – been there, done that.

Besides, there are a few drawings that need to be posted, as well.

If you want to message me on FB (Joseph Bandler) then I can share with you as my time permits – no strings, no hassle – just Bible!
 

And why are there still poor people while they could give every poor person in the world a million dollars? And still have some left over. 🤷‍♂️

Priests are not generally so very well off; quite the opposite is more commonly the case.

The wealth that is given to the church is meant as a reappropriation of earthly riches to glorify God, much as Mary, Lazarus’ sister, washed Jesus’ feet with expensive nard. These riches are given to the church, and thus to God; and, as all the objects of the church, are dedicated to that use and to that use alone. They cannot be used for anything else, and, should the time come that they must be disposed of for whatever reason, they are supposed to be burned.

This is the spirit of the thing; naturally, abuses are inevitable, as long as human beings walk the earth.

@444gem I am always impressed by your knowledge and attention to detail, which is second to none that I have ever come across, and your posts are an education for those of us seeking answers. Are you familiar with this quote from Shakespeare: “A rose by any other name is still a rose”? I believe in the man who was born in a manger in Bethlehem and died on the cross at Calvary, and I believe He is the Son of God. The teacher who said: “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children”. (Matthew 11:25) and who taught “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 18:3)

Ultimately, simple, blind faith is all that is asked of us by a loving Father who we can trust.

Which father?

“Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” (John 20:29)

“And I thought the dead who are already dead more fortunate than the living who are still alive. But better than both is he who has not yet been and has not seen the evil deeds that are done under the sun.” (Ecclesiastes 4:2)

You obviously take time to respond to people in your posts, so this is just a quick reply regarding the kind of ‘child-like, simple, trusting’ faith to which I was referring. You evidently have serious issues with the Catholic Church, so I should take time to respond more fully in defence of the Church to which I belong. Until the Second Vatican Council, my Church did not teach anything contrary to Sacred Scripture. The current Pope is a heretic and an apostate. The ‘Roman’ element of the Church has always been corrupt and, while I agree with many of the historically and contemporarily based criticisms aimed at the Catholic Church, I will never abandon my Church and I’ll explain myself better in a coming post on the subject.

The Sun Cross, of a church which was begun by a Sun worshipping Emperor who murderer four of his close family members for power and profit.

The second commandment says “Making Graven Images You Shall NOT.”

The Catholic Church didn’t get the message, and trots these out every Easter week.

It is the symbol of the Babylonian deity of Shamesh. Who is the third horseman of the apokalipsis. The Black sun of Judgement.

Their blasphemies come directly from Luciferianism. Look at how they have taken the image of Isis with Horus and used it to usurp Yeshua and Mary with heaven images, directly in controversies of the commandments.

In your search for YHWH and Ghe Truth, you have been deceived greatly by the wolves pretending to be shepherds.

I am in the process of compiling the necessary information to expose Satan’s machinations since the beginning of time. Reading the following information will assist in making sense of the information that will follow.

“The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!” And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.” (Luke 10:17-20)

Catechism of the Catholic Church

PART ONE: THE PROFESSION OF FAITH; SECTION TWO I. THE CREEDS; CHAPTER ONE I BELIEVE IN GOD THE FATHER; Article 1 “I BELIEVE IN GOD THE FATHER ALMIGHTY, CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH”;

Paragraph 7. THE FALL
II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS
391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy.266 Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” or the “devil”.267 The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: “The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing.”268
392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels.269 This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: “You will be like God.”270 The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.271
393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. “There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death.”272
394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls “a murderer from the beginning”, who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father.273 “The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.”274 In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God.
395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries – of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature – to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but “we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him.”275
“And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth. And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it. She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rulea all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days.” (Revelation 12:1-6)

PART ONE: THE PROFESSION OF FAITH; SECTION TWO I. THE CREEDS; CHAPTER TWO I BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, THE ONLY SON OF GOD; Article 3 “HE WAS CONCEIVED BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND WAS BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY”;

Paragraph 2. “CONCEIVED BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY”
I. CONCEIVED BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. . .
484 The Annunciation to Mary inaugurates “the fullness of time”,119 The time of the fulfilment of God’s promises and preparations. Mary was invited to conceive him in whom the “whole fullness of deity” would dwell “bodily”.120 The divine response to her question, “How can this be, since I know not man?”, was given by the power of the Spirit: “The Holy Spirit will come upon you.”121
485 The mission of the Holy Spirit is always conjoined and ordered to that of the Son.122 The Holy Spirit, “the Lord, the giver of Life”, is sent to sanctify the womb of the Virgin Mary and divinely fecundate it, causing her to conceive the eternal Son of the Father in a humanity drawn from her own.
486 The Father’s only Son, conceived as man in the womb of the Virgin Mary, is “Christ”, that is to say, anointed by the Holy Spirit, from the beginning of his human existence, though the manifestation of this fact takes place only progressively: to the shepherds, to the magi, to John the Baptist, to the disciples.123 Thus the whole life of Jesus Christ will make manifest “how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power.”124
II…. BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY
487 What the Catholic faith believes about Mary is based on what it believes about Christ, and what it teaches about Mary illumines in turn its faith in Christ.
Mary’s predestination
488 “God sent forth his Son”, but to prepare a body for him,125 he wanted the free co-operation of a creature. For this, from all eternity God chose for the mother of his Son a daughter of Israel, a young Jewish woman of Nazareth in Galilee, “a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary”:126
The Father of mercies willed that the Incarnation should be preceded by assent on the part of the predestined mother, so that just as a woman had a share in the coming of death, so also should a woman contribute to the coming of life.127
489 Throughout the Old Covenant the mission of many holy women prepared for that of Mary. At the very beginning there was Eve; despite her disobedience, she receives the promise of a posterity that will be victorious over the evil one, as well as the promise that she will be the mother of all the living.128 By virtue of this promise, Sarah conceives a son in spite of her old age.129 Against all human expectation God chooses those who were considered powerless and weak to show forth his faithfulness to his promises: Hannah, the mother of Samuel; Deborah; Ruth; Judith and Esther; and many other women.130 Mary “stands out among the poor and humble of the Lord, who confidently hope for and receive salvation from him. After a long period of waiting the times are fulfilled in her, the exalted Daughter of Sion, and the new plan of salvation is established.”131

PART ONE: THE PROFESSION OF FAITH; SECTION TWO I. THE CREEDS; CHAPTER TWO I BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, THE ONLY SON OF GOD; Article 4 “JESUS CHRIST SUFFERED UNDER PONTIUS PILATE, WAS CRUCIFIED, DIED AND WAS BURIED”;

II. CHRIST’S REDEMPTIVE DEATH IN GOD’S PLAN OF SALVATION
“Jesus handed over according to the definite plan of God”
599 Jesus’ violent death was not the result of chance in an unfortunate coincidence of circumstances, but is part of the mystery of God’s plan, as St. Peter explains to the Jews of Jerusalem in his first sermon on Pentecost: “This Jesus (was) delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God.”393 This Biblical language does not mean that those who handed him over were merely passive players in a scenario written in advance by God.394
600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace: “In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.”395 For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.396
“He died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures”
601 The Scriptures had foretold this divine plan of salvation through the putting to death of “the righteous one, my Servant” as a mystery of universal redemption, that is, as the ransom that would free men from the slavery of sin.397 Citing a confession of faith that he himself had “received”, St. Paul professes that “Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures.”398 In particular Jesus’ redemptive death fulfils Isaiah’s prophecy of the suffering Servant.399 Indeed Jesus himself explained the meaning of his life and death in the light of God’s suffering Servant.400 After his Resurrection he gave this interpretation of the Scriptures to the disciples at Emmaus, and then to the apostles.401
“For our sake God made him to be sin”
602 Consequently, St. Peter can formulate the apostolic faith in the divine plan of salvation in this way: “You were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your fathers… with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. He was destined before the foundation of the world but was made manifest at the end of the times for your sake.”402 Man’s sins, following on original sin, are punishable by death.403 By sending his own Son in the form of a slave, in the form of a fallen humanity, on account of sin, God “made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”404
603 Jesus did not experience reprobation as if he himself had sinned.405 But in the redeeming love that always united him to the Father, he assumed us in the state of our waywardness of sin, to the point that he could say in our name from the cross: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”406 Having thus established him in solidarity with us sinners, God “did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all”, so that we might be “reconciled to God by the death of his Son”.407
God takes the initiative of universal redeeming love
604 By giving up his own Son for our sins, God manifests that his plan for us is one of benevolent love, prior to any merit on our part: “In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins.”408 God “shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.”409
605 At the end of the parable of the lost sheep Jesus recalled that God’s love excludes no one: “So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.”410 He affirms that he came “to give his life as a ransom for many”; this last term is not restrictive, but contrasts the whole of humanity with the unique person of the redeemer who hands himself over to save us.411 The Church, following the apostles, teaches that Christ died for all men without exception: “There is not, never has been, and never will be a single human being for whom Christ did not suffer.”412

III. ORIGINAL SIN
Freedom put to the test
396 God created man in his image and established him in his friendship. A spiritual creature, man can live this friendship only in free submission to God. the prohibition against eating “of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” spells this out: “for in the day that you eat of it, you shall die.”276 The “tree of the knowledge of good and evil”277 symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust. Man is dependent on his Creator, and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom.
Man’s first sin
397 Man, tempted by the devil, let his trust in his Creator die in his heart and, abusing his freedom, disobeyed God’s command. This is what man’s first sin consisted of.278 All subsequent sin would be disobedience toward God and lack of trust in his goodness.
398 In that sin man preferred himself to God and by that very act scorned him. He chose himself over and against God, against the requirements of his creaturely status and therefore against his own good. Created in a state of holiness, man was destined to be fully “divinized” by God in glory. Seduced by the devil, he wanted to “be like God”, but “without God, before God, and not in accordance with God”.279
399 Scripture portrays the tragic consequences of this first disobedience. Adam and Eve immediately lose the grace of original holiness.280 They become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image – that of a God jealous of his prerogatives.281
400 The harmony in which they had found themselves, thanks to original justice, is now destroyed: the control of the soul’s spiritual faculties over the body is shattered; the union of man and woman becomes subject to tensions, their relations henceforth marked by lust and domination.282 Harmony with creation is broken: visible creation has become alien and hostile to man.283 Because of man, creation is now subject “to its bondage to decay”.284 Finally, the consequence explicitly foretold for this disobedience will come true: man will “return to the ground”,285 for out of it he was taken. Death makes its entrance into human history.286
401 After that first sin, the world is virtually inundated by sin There is Cain’s murder of his brother Abel and the universal corruption which follows in the wake of sin. Likewise, sin frequently manifests itself in the history of Israel, especially as infidelity to the God of the Covenant and as transgression of the Law of Moses. and even after Christ’s atonement, sin raises its head in countless ways among Christians.287 Scripture and the Church’s Tradition continually recall the presence and universality of sin in man’s history:
What Revelation makes known to us is confirmed by our own experience. For when man looks into his own heart he finds that he is drawn towards what is wrong and sunk in many evils which cannot come from his good creator. Often refusing to acknowledge God as his source, man has also upset the relationship which should link him to his last end, and at the same time he has broken the right order that should reign within himself as well as between himself and other men and all creatures.288
The consequences of Adam’s sin for humanity
402 All men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as St. Paul affirms: “By one man’s disobedience many (that is, all men) were made sinners”: “sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned.”289 The Apostle contrasts the universality of sin and death with the universality of salvation in Christ. “Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men.”290
403 Following St. Paul, the Church has always taught that the overwhelming misery which oppresses men and their inclination towards evil and death cannot be understood apart from their connection with Adam’s sin and the fact that he has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all born afflicted, a sin which is the “death of the soul”.291 Because of this certainty of faith, the Church baptizes for the remission of sins even tiny infants who have not committed personal sin.292
404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? the whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man”.293 By this “unity of the human race” all men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as all are implicated in Christ’s justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. and that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogical sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed” – a state and not an act.
405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin – an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence”. Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.
406 The Church’s teaching on the transmission of original sin was articulated more precisely in the fifth century, especially under the impulse of St. Augustine’s reflections against Pelagianism, and in the sixteenth century, in opposition to the Protestant Reformation. Pelagius held that man could, by the natural power of free will and without the necessary help of God’s grace, lead a morally good life; he thus reduced the influence of Adam’s fault to bad example. the first Protestant reformers, on the contrary, taught that original sin has radically perverted man and destroyed his freedom; they identified the sin inherited by each man with the tendency to evil (concupiscentia), which would be insurmountable. the Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529)296 and at the Council of Trent (1546).297

A hard battle. . .
407 The doctrine of original sin, closely connected with that of redemption by Christ, provides lucid discernment of man’s situation and activity in the world. By our first parents’ sin, the devil has acquired a certain domination over man, even though man remains free. Original sin entails “captivity under the power of him who thenceforth had the power of death, that is, the devil”.298 Ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action299 and morals.
408 The consequences of original sin and of all men’s personal sins put the world as a whole in the sinful condition aptly described in St. John’s expression, “the sin of the world”.300 This expression can also refer to the negative influence exerted on people by communal situations and social structures that are the fruit of men’s sins.301
409 This dramatic situation of “the whole world [which] is in the power of the evil one”302 makes man’s life a battle:
The whole of man’s history has been the story of dour combat with the powers of evil, stretching, so our Lord tells us, from the very dawn of history until the last day. Finding himself in the midst of the battlefield man has to struggle to do what is right, and it is at great cost to himself, and aided by God’s grace, that he succeeds in achieving his own inner integrity.303
IV. “YOU DID NOT ABANDON HIM TO THE POWER OF DEATH”
410 After his fall, man was not abandoned by God. On the contrary, God calls him and in a mysterious way heralds the coming victory over evil and his restoration from his fall.304 This passage in Genesis is called the Protoevangelium (“first gospel”): the first announcement of the Messiah and Redeemer, of a battle between the serpent and the Woman, and of the final victory of a descendant of hers.
411 The Christian tradition sees in this passage an announcement of the “New Adam” who, because he “became obedient unto death, even death on a cross”, makes amends superabundantly for the disobedience, of Adam.305 Furthermore many Fathers and Doctors of the Church have seen the woman announced in the “Proto-evangelium” as Mary, the mother of Christ, the “new Eve”. Mary benefited first of all and uniquely from Christ’s victory over sin: she was preserved from all stain of original sin and by a special grace of God committed no sin of any kind during her whole earthly life.306
412 But why did God not prevent the first man from sinning? St. Leo the Great responds, “Christ’s inexpressible grace gave us blessings better than those the demon’s envy had taken away.”307 and St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, “There is nothing to prevent human nature’s being raised up to something greater, even after sin; God permits evil in order to draw forth some greater good. Thus St. Paul says, ‘Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more’; and the Exsultet sings, ‘O happy fault,. . . which gained for us so great a Redeemer!'”308

IN BRIEF
413 “God did not make death, and he does not delight in the death of the living. . . It was through the devil’s envy that death entered the world” (Wis 1:13; 2:24).
414 Satan or the devil and the other demons are fallen angels who have freely refused to serve God and his plan. Their choice against God is definitive. They try to associate man in their revolt against God.
415 “Although set by God in a state of rectitude man, enticed by the evil one, abused his freedom at the very start of history. He lifted himself up against God, and sought to attain his goal apart from him” (GS 13 # 1).
416 By his sin Adam, as the first man, lost the original holiness and justice he had received from God, not only for himself but for all human beings.
417 Adam and Eve transmitted to their descendants human nature wounded by their own first sin and hence deprived of original holiness and justice; this deprivation is called “original sin”.
418 As a result of original sin, human nature is weakened in its powers, subject to ignorance, suffering and the domination of death, and inclined to sin (this inclination is called “concupiscence”).
419 “We therefore hold, with the Council of Trent, that original sin is transmitted with human nature, “by propagation, not by imitation” and that it is. . . ‘proper to each'” (Paul VI, CPG # 16).
420 The victory that Christ won over sin has given us greater blessings than those which sin had taken from us: “where sin increased, grace abounded all the more” (Rom 5:20).
421 Christians believe that “the world has been established and kept in being by the Creator’s love; has fallen into slavery to sin but has been set free by Christ, crucified and risen to break the power of the evil one. . .” (GS 2 # 2).

@arif

The golden solar eagle holding his banner. Look at his neck, it is the form of a trapezoid, like all block head deities. On his shield is the barley ripened, which represents “The ripened barley.” The word Sar for the eclipse cycle original indeed means “The ripened barley.” Next to this is the chain for measuring the Earth, it is said “Mesura” which means to measure and “Rattuq” for chain, however together they are “Qanes,” like KAIN. Above this the tree of knowledge of good and evil, tree being said “Me’es.” and next to that the APIs Bull of Osiris, the constellation Taurus, the bull of heaven, whose name in Hebrew is “Saur.”

Together the left side means “Saurus Saros,” aka the “Beast of the eclipse” for the eclipse cycle and on the other side it is “Rattuq Mesura Me’es Qanes” which is the Measuring Chain of The Tree, the Rod of Kain.

@retiredtwitteruser

Let’s also discuss if I am a “Jewish apologist.” It is wise not to throw people into buckets. For as Yeshua said, by the measure you measure shall you be measured.

The term “Jewish,” as you know it today is an extraordinary misnomer. It has been perpetrated in order to allow a bucket throw of very distinct groups of peoples. There are the Isis-Ra-Elis, whom were the slaves in Egypt freed by Moshe, whom have now spent thousands of years being controlled by the Pharisees/Sadducees whom are truly of Pheonician origin. Pheonician and Venicians are the same group, they are worshippers of the Pheonix, which is Fanax, the Firefox, who is Venus, the Benus bird of Egypt.

These are the ones who called themselves Tannaim, repeaters and ruled the SaturnHExaheDRON, in the time of Yeshua: there leader, called the N@SI, at the time was called Barraban. Consider why H1tl3r supposed hater of “Jews,” called himself a Nasi, the same as the leader of the Sanhedron; because they are Fanacians. It is the same as “Enochians,” which is the son of Kain, the children of Kain. Now consider why your church was so eager to help H1tl3r and the Nasis in their quest of mass genocide. Venicians/Fenacians/Enochians all working together to murder, as their forefather Cain.

I’ll refer you to Josephus writings in Book 2 Section 8 “The Three Sects.” You will see that the Essenes are mentioned as the only Aryeh Yehudah by Birth. Yeshua was a Nazarene of the Essenes, the ones that have children. I am also a Nazarene. So no I’m not a “Jewish apologist,” but rather one of the few remaining Essenes/Nazarenes left in this world defending the Truth of Yeshua, after your church, and many others, tried very hard for millenia to wipe us from the face of the Earth and to steal the scriptures so as to pervert them. The last time being their well document work with H1tl3r. Take a read on “Unholy Trinity,” and you’ll find great historical sourcing material.

As I did not include Hindus, I did not include Isirealis in the former list because they do not generally belong to a monolithic power structure that claims to be the sole authority and mouth of YHWH, as do Catholics (Catholic Church) Buddhists (Dalia Llama) Muslims (Mecca Imams) and Atheists (Western Academia).

Let’s affirm that most of humanity, including Native Americans, Seikhs, IsIsraelis, African Tribalists, Taoists, Aborigines, Hindus, Siberian Animists, Non-Muslim Berbers, Zoroastrians, etc are good people who have a heart to seek The Ineffable Crestor, but whom are under Constant onslaught by wicked deceivers.

Regarding the name YHWH I use it because this comes directly from scripture. Look to see how many times the name is used and scripture; if this is all demonic incantation, then you are saying the scriptures in their entirety are demonic.

Certainly many have invoked the name of the ineffable creator for nefarious purposes, but just because someone blasphemes the name YHWH does not make the name blasphemous.

I will also gladly demistify how to say the name, as the Pharisees (literally “Fire I See.”) have tried to hoard it.

It is said U-A-I-E, the vowels from the top of the mouth to the bottom of the throat. It is said quite similar to Why? In English, and hence the reason Yeshua exclaimed you must come as children, because Children ask Why?

The use of YHWH is the numerical 10-5-6-5 as Aryeh Yehudah is an alphanumeric language. It is the form of a trapezoid, which when examined mathematically and scientifically reveals the very construction of prime numbers in the universe, and geometric signature of all of creation. The vowels add a 6-1-10-5 which then will give you everything from the speed of light to the gravitational constant.

Why did Yeshua send out 73? Because the first 7 words of scripture are 2701, 37*73. 73 is the average number of eclipses in a Saros Series. 7.3 is the name of the creator as Elohim Squared *2 and square rooted added together. 7.3 is the volume of Borromean Rings shape of Beryllium Helium and Lithium (BELIHEM) that give birth to Carbon-12 in stars, which is what forms The dust of the earth and your body. Bethlehem, the house of bread, the carbon of the earth that is living.

73 is the number of days between when Venus appears from Inferior Conjunction and when it reaches Max Elongation, which is when we can measure its distance with a Pythagorean triangle with The Sun and obtain exacting celestial mechanics. 73 is the number of years in 1 degree of the procession of the equinoxes, +1.

73 is the number of generations between Creator and Abraham+1. It is the number of generations between David and Yeshua +1! This is all there directly in scripture, but the wicked have hidden it away.

None of what I have shared with you from scripture is “occult.” If it seems so, it is only because it has been hoarded by wicked priests, Pharisees, etc. the hoardous children of Kain.

I just discovered this website by coincidence, and i’m glad.
For all people who don’t know this website, (me included) 😢 , are they damned? How can they find the truth? Where can they learn it?
For example, I just read in another post about different calendars: masonic, solar ,lunar,… and i couldn’t find anything to help me understand your comments. What references do you suggest for this topic?
Can this knowledge be learned through osmosis? Could you describe your learning path? How long did it take? Many Thanks

@Wildeer

Thank you for seeking The Truth… May YHWH bless you.

No, people are not damned because they didn’t find this website, but if we make a collective choice to turn from The Truth, and not to embrace YHWH whole heartedly, then yes Humanity is completely doomed. Consider what I offer a seed, which can be planted to make a large tree with much fruit, whose seeds can again be planted in good soil and make 1000 trees more, and so on and so forth. This is the parable of the Sewer as told by Yeshua, may your heart be good soil.

I would recommend 13 Monkeys as a way to start advancing your knowledge, but not as an end. There are innumerable links in the series which can help you grow and learn along your path. If you ever have any questions, simply tag me with the @444gem, and I will try to answer your questions.

I can also recommend dozens of books and lectures, which are freely available to all, which can greatly help you learn more in your search for Truth and YHWH. Likewise, I am not surprised you cannot find any of this information online; the wicked ones who rule the world are Dragons Hoarding GOLD; which is a reference to Wisdom. The information does exist and can be verified from numerous third sources, if only you know where to look. The Kingdom of Heaven is as a Treasure found in a field. I take no credit for that which belongs to YHWH, but I can help you along your journey in uncovering this treasure and sharing its boundless gold with the rest of the world. The hearts of children must be turned to their father.

The knowledge, wisdom, and understanding which I possess has only come from knocking at the door of the ineffable creator, and asking Why? day after day, moment after moment, for the entirety of my life. My heart does not waiver from YHWH, for only through HEIM do we breathe and step.

This does not mean one should try to compare themselves, or worry about this being a race; no, we are commanded, as the parable of the servants and the sharing of the Gold told by Yeshua in Matthew, to take what we are given by the ineffable creator, and share it with all. Some will be given 2 gold coins, some 5, but what counts, according to the word of Yeshua, is that we share whatever we are given freely, inorder that the wealth and abundance of Truth on Earth may multiply, as the Fish and Bread.

Sincere thanks for the (characteristically generous) time and care you have taken in your response, Gem. It is genuinely appreciated.

I premised my question by stating that I was not asking it polemically, and in that spirit, I will limit myself to clarifying that, for my part, I do not regard any of these Biblical passages as being in contradiction to the Second Commandment — precisely as I do not regard the Church’s use of icons as being in contradiction to that Commandment, and for not altogether unrelated reasons.

That aside, if I could take just a bit more of your time, I’m hoping you could help me with a few points that I don’t understand in your math. First of all, what gematria are you using to derive the numerical value of Elohim? Then, when you take the average of two numbers, are you referring to 13.514 (from your suggested numerical value of Elohim) and its square root, 3.67614? If so, how are you getting 7.32870392 as the average here?

Forgive me if I am missing something obvious, and thanks again for your time.

For Alohim the letters are:

אלהים

A (1) – L (30) H(5) I (10) M(40)

The lead digits are 13514. You must then view this as a floating point integer string in Base 10. This is how modern computers work, using floating point integer strings.

So it can be 1.3514 and 13.514 etc.

The “Average,” is of course the sum of the two numbers I gave then divided in half. The simple sum would be the Mean * 2, which is the 7.32 figure that is the volume of the Borromean rings. The shapes which produce Carbon-12 inside dying stars which is essential to the formation of Earth and human life. The elements that form those Borromean rings are BEryllium LIthium and HEliuM… that’s BELIHEM, the house of “bread,” which is also made of Carbon-12.

Then the mean would be the figure closer to 3.66 which gives the volume of the Hyperbolic Octahedron and Whitehead Knot.

And then 1/2 the mean is .916 which is Catalans Constant, which is like Pi for coming tile and atom stackings, and also appears in Galaxy Mass distribution.

1.3514^2 = 1.8262819
The number of days in 1/2 solar year is
Exactly 182.62 days.

1.8262819 * 2 = 3.65256392
√13.514 = 3.6761392792

3.65256392 + 3.6761392792= 7.32870319

7.32870319/8 = .916 = Catalans constant

7.32870319/ 2 = 3.6643516 = Volume of Hyperbolic Icosahedron

7.32870319 = Volume of Borromean Rings

Hence, the mean of square root and the square * 2 gives us the calculation, and links it directly to the number of days in the Solar Year.

Ah, now I see what I was missing! Thank you, Gem.

Let me think about this. I’ll get back to you. Thanks again for your patience.

@444gem, I’ve been contemplating the mathematical relations you proposed with regard to the word “Elohim” above, and it seems to me entirely possible that they are intentional. (Forgive me if I am not more emphatic here; I am, in truth, quite impressed by what you’ve shown me, and I think it entirely possible that such wisdom is hidden in the text, but I am more or less conscious of my own weakness, and think it prudent to approach these things with caution.)

May I ask whether these mathematical conclusions are your discoveries, or if they are taught somewhere?

Beyond that, I am trying to understand the implications of all of this for the reading of the Scriptures, and to this end, I have one major question regarding your approach, if I may. You say, “This stuff does not invalidate what is written or its story.” Could you break this down for me in the case of the bronze serpent? Is your claim that the mathematics you have given forms a deeper layer of the story, a sort of profound and hidden divine wisdom that can be brought out of it, without contradicting the surface reading? Or are you saying that this is itself the whole of the story — that there never was a physical bronze serpent, never an actual plague of serpents in the desert, etc.? Or again, are you saying that the story happened and the deeper layer is at the same time real, but that the surface cannot be adequately understood without the deeper layer?

Could I also ask you a few questions about the calculations you make regarding Berashit? I’m trying to follow your math here, and since there’s a lot to work through, I’m going to limit myself only to your derivation of the mile. (Forgive me if I move slowly through this; I want to be sure I’m seeing things clearly.)

Following what I’ve understood of your procedure, I have:

365.24219 (solar year)/354.36707 (lunar year) = 1.030688856049745
1.030688856049745 * 6 = 6.186440677966102
6.186440677966102 * 4,152 (the length of Nile you’ve given from equator to Mediterranean) = 25,686.10169491526

So, I’m shooting long here with regard to the figure for the mile that you’ve suggested (24,913). I’ve also tried with the modern measurement of the length of that same piece of the Nile (4,150.3337), and still come up long. Where am I going off track?

Also, a question regarding the length of the Nile; what unit of measurement are you using here? Surely it can’t be the mile, since you are suggesting that this is how they derived the mile in the first place?

Once again, Gem, thank you for your patience and your time, and forgive me for lagging.

@JBL

The Explainer of the most important mathematical function for the very existence of complex life on Earth: the rotation of the lunar apsidal nodes, which is the only thing that keeps Earth from being flung about every time Jupiter or Saturn or Mars passes, which would cause the Earth to wobble enormously and thus the poles become the equator and vice versa every few years.

The moon’s apsidal nodes are balanced such that they have a balancing effect on Earth, and thus our climate is relatively stable and humanity has been able to form and create socieities. The first 9 letters of the Bible give an extraordinarily elegant mathematical function for the celestial phenomena that allows us to even exist.

@hollow logs @thekwon

These explanations may interest you as a precursor to next chapter.

@JBL

Until you tell me what “variables,” you take issue with, I cannot further clarify. Certainly the balancing of The Sun and The Moon (like the metonic cycle) and the length of the Nile with the measure of Earth, are exactly the variables the Ancient Beni Hazan would have known.

Keep in mind that “Hazan,” means revelation from YHWH, as is used in Daniel and Ezekiel, both Sons of Man. Also keep in mind that Khnum Khufu, was raised in Beni Hazan, the 13th gnome, of Egypt the land of the Aryeh Yehudah. He then turned to the Heliopolitan priests, taking a technological marvel and making it a “tomb for foreigners.”

Regarding people’s capacity for learning these concepts and salvation, I point you to the parable of the servants sharing their gold from Matthew and increasing it. To the servant given five gold coins, may he share them. To the servant given two, as well. But the one who hoards his knowledge and does not share the wealth among the people, will he be admonished and find himself cast out. The purpose of this parable is not a lesson in monetary investment, but rather the increasing of wisdom and Truth of YHWH throughout the world by openly and freely sharing it.

You imagine the world how it is now, and disregard what has led it to this point. Do you know that human cranial capacity has decreased for the first time in human history in the past 2000 years? It was combined with a church that committed every unspeakable atrocity against wisdom and knowledge. Surely you cannot deny the multitudes of genocides carried out by the early Catholic Church against “heretics,” and then the 1600+ years of attacking anyone that dared have a scientific thought. This was a 2000 years eugenics program to eliminate the free and intelligent thinkers from society, and the fruits are clear; there was slavery, misery, death and poverty under the feudal system wherever they controlled. They called themselves the ambassadors of Yeshua, and then created a veritable hell on earth. The testimonies of many monks from throughout the time do not lie.

What if instead of making ceramic statues and golden walls while burning heretics for the past 2000 years, this Church had instead put all their effort in teaching these lessons I am showing you, increasing peoples wisdom and understanding of the original scriptures, and knowledge of their own incredible nature and the marvellous workings of our universe? Certainly I wouldn’t have to spend thousands of words to try and convince you that the vast majority of people are as capable of learning to read a second language and meditate on scripture as they are attending services washed in detestable incense while surrounded by golden idolatry. Yeshua offered The Keys to the Domain of the Cosmos and said only through his teachings can we reach salvation. Then why is nobody readings the original scriptures of his teachings and contemplating the keys to the domain of the cosmos?

Think of this, how much time, material wealth, effort and energy is invested into building these golden filled temples and these opulent worship services the world around? And how much is invested in learning what I am showing you directly from the original scriptures? The fulcrum falls almost completely towards the former; hundreds of trillions of hours, calories, thoughts, prayers and monetary currencies are spent on the former, while the latter is not so much as even discussed. In the past your church has burned millions of people for what I am telling you. This is the way of dark occult AntiXristos; they replace The Truth with a MAGIk lie, and do many false wonders in the name of Yeshua. The “water blessing” ceremony of the priests, told to me by another I spoke with, comes directly to mind. It’s filtered by rocks at the time of year of the snow melt, it doesn’t need a priest waving his hand and taking your tithe to be pure.

What if the billions of hours saying rosaries to ceramic statues of the Queen of heaven asking for salvation and forgiveness, we’re dedicated to learning the original languages and real histories behind them? What if the billions of dollars spent on incense were instead invested in teaching the world, from the time of childhood, the original scripture mathematics and the words of Yeshua?

In Isiah 1 we find, speaking to the Pharisees whose temples had turned their backs on YHWH:

Woe to the sinful nation,
    a people whose guilt is great,
a brood of evildoers,
    children given to corruption!
They have forsaken the Lord;
    they have spurned the Holy One of Israel
    and turned their backs on him.

The word for “evildoers” is:

‎מְרֵעִ֔ים “Miriam”

This word is used constantly throughout the psalms, Isiah, Job, Jeremiah etc. in regards to those who are “wicked/evildoers,” because they worship The Great Mother. The detestable Ashtarte and Shemash mentioned in connection to Sol-Amon and his golden temple designed to stimulate the central nervous system of all inside, just as the pyramids and your golden temples.

Why then does this church of yours worship so heavily Miriam?!! Because they are the antiXristos. And yet another reason they have hidden away the original scriptures for thousands of years, a historical fact you yourself cannot deny. The people cannot know if they do not read. They cannot see if their eyes are forced shut.

In Isiah 1 continuing on we find the admonishments of the Ineffable Creator:

When you come to appear before me,
    who has asked this of you,
    this trampling of my courts?

Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
    Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
    I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.

Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals
    I hate with all my being.
They have become a burden to me;
    I am weary of bearing them.

When you spread out your hands in prayer,
    I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
    I am not listening.

Why then do your priests continue to burn enormous quantities of incense in their festivals? If the LORD has called it detestable to him…. They spit on the scriptures while dressed in the gold of Sol-Amon and make excuses afterwards.

@JBL

I offer you some of the words from Saul of Tarshish, who after a life of folly tried to atone at the end. He had a way with gentiles, despite his failings.

From Corinthians:

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led.

I assure you these icons and statues of your gentile church that people kiss and pray to and adorn in gold and clothe are exactly the stuff Saul was speaking of.

Continuing on:

“But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.”

Does he not offer the same sentiment I have given you here? He speaks of increasing knowledge with faith, of healing and prophecy, prophecy itself I assure you is highly mathematical in nature. He speaks of learning different languages and then understanding them. Where are these things today? Now where to be found?

The Catholic Church proclaims there will never be another prophecy from YHWH! Who are they to proclaim this? That the ineffable creator has forever abandoned us with his word and has nothing left to say, because well, they say so…. They proclaim the mouth of YHWH shut under their decree! It is an abomination. It is not written in scripture and it is yet another power grab and spit upon the face of the ineffable creator.

@JBL

Here’s a public picture (not willing to share my own set for security reasons) with Sopdet’s wings between Anubis. The last feather at the edge of her body is actually a back wing. There’s another identical on the back side of the sarcophagus.

37*4 = 148 * 2 = 296 the days Sirius is visible. Same as the 7th word of scriptures.

From this sarcophagus face, knowing there is 9 of those silver things (which represent phase anti phase sine waves, being approximated by a Riemann Sum) hanging below her on this side and 11 on the other (9/11), you can then obtain the perfect Saros eclipse convergent series function (no math as advanced was rediscovered until the 17th-18th century AD) that balances the solar and lunar years with exactly 1 day drift per 3600 years.

In Sumeria the number 3600 was called a Sar and represented by a black circle, an eclipse. Hence the name Sirius, for OSIRIS/Osirius, who marked the black fertile land that brought greening to Egypt at the heliacal rising of Sirius then in July. Hence the final of the four horsemen, Pale Green (Chloros).

The word Circle comes from the Sumerian word for 216,000 “Sar.Gal” which means “Great Beast,” and it is 600*60*6 just like the number of Salomon and his eclipses and the number of the beast.

I am at a loss, @444gem. I asked you for some insight into the connection between the mathematics you have been showing me on the one hand and our daily and lived practice as God-loving men on the other, and have received in its stead a lengthy diatribe against the Church (mainly even the Catholic) and the modern world (with which I almost entirely agree), denigrating yet again both the faith to which I belong and my own powers of spiritual discernment.

What am I to do? If I respond to you in tone, exchanging tone for tone and rebuke for rebuke, it is certain we will get nowhere. Yet you continue to hammer on these same points, so I also can no longer pass over them in silence. You seem to want to tell me that if I do not divest myself of my present beliefs, I will never be able to break through into the truths which you claim to be revealing. It is evidently incumbent on me to try to understand to what extent your censure of the Church is just and grounded.

So let us return to our old stomping grounds in the historical panorama. For the moment, let us set aside the post-Schism Catholics, and focus only on the first millennium of the Church’s life, when there still was no distinction between “Catholic” and “Orthodox” Christians, as this is portion of Christian history is more directly relevant to my own beliefs as an Orthodox. (I take it, from your language, that all your criticisms of the Catholics apply equally to the early Church, so I do not believe I am unfairly limiting your range of response here.)

I propose several questions to get us on our way. Feel free to focus on just one or two if you prefer; know that I never take silence as indicating an inability to respond, and I will gladly follow your lead here. It would be better, in my view, to get to the bottom of even a single of these questions, than to lose ourselves inconclusively in the vagaries of all four taken together. But, as I hope you know, I am also wholly willing to spend the time necessary to duly investigate and weigh any responses you are kind enough to post.

With that, here are my questions:

1. Can you point me to a single clear and historically verifiable (that is, through accessible original source documents; perhaps the testimonies of the monks you have mentioned?) example of a genocide, carried out by the Church, in the first millennium?

2. Can you point me to a single clear and historically verifiable example of the first-millennial Church (either directly or through its visibly retraceable influence) persecuting any individual for his scientific discoveries (perhaps, for instance, under the guise of attacking a heretic)?

3. Can you clarify in what way precisely you claim that the Church has “hidden away the original scriptures for thousands of years”? Are you referring here only to the use of Latin as the liturgical language in the Roman Catholic Church, or do you mean also something more?

4. I am also (though this is secondary to the other questions) interested to know what you make of the evident, universal, pre- and post-Christian, and God-proscribed (Exodus 30:1-10) use of incense found throughout the Old Testament, and noted as well in even very early independent historians like Josephus, and how you reconcile this with your own claims that incense is in itself despised by God and is abominable as such.

@JBL

I’ll answer 3 and 4 because they are simpler:

3. Yes the use of the Latin Vulgate, and Ecclesiastical latina as the only acceptable form of mass and bible is widely attested from about 400 AD onwards. The populace did not speak this language, nor the nobles, and hence they were speaking in a tongue and keeping the biblical texts in a tongue foreign to the original scriptures, and foreign to their entire congregation from around 500 AD onwards. Nor could they learn much of the “milk,” the basic stories in their own language, nor be privy to the original scriptures (most of the populace could not even read.)

4. My claim regarding incense comes directly from Isiah. It is not my own words. Just as Ezekiel declares the detest of YHWH for worship in high places by the Pharisees. There is a lot of history here hidden by the translations.

And certainly although YHWH declared these things detestable to him, it did not prevent people from continuing to do them. That is certain.

Many of the examples you cite in the Old Testament are exactly what is being spoken of in Isiah as having become burdensome to the LORD and to be ceased.

You must recall that behind the laws of Moses there is a large group of profoundly pagan people being freed from millennia of slavery that number 100 to 1 for every Aryeh Yehudah.

We find them complaining of not having watermelon, which is a ritual Sun Fruit of Egypt (modern genetics now confirm) that represented the Blood of Osiris (red on green.) Nor the Fish of Dagon (look up the original word used, which is Dagon), which represents another festival of the tilapia, called Jon in Egyptian (Oannes in Babylon) which represents beast out of the sea and framing the stars as a fish, the form of the vesica Pisces which allows for precise geometrical measurement and calculation of the moment of planets and stars and their elliptical orbits (the vesica Pisces is a good approximation of an ellipse.)

When Moses leaves for a few days, these people immediately worship the golden APIS bulls of Osiris (the golden calf.) After all, they are Isis-Ra-Eli’s. And thus you find Moses instituting practices incorporated to keep social cohesion of a large mass of former slaves that love paganism being watched over by a small group of Aryeh Yehudah. This fight over true worship and pagan dogma plays out for many millennia more among the Isis Ra Eli’s, we’ll documented in the book of kings.

700 years after Moshe institutes these things, these religious dogmatic practices that have devolved into essential idolatry (ie: no longer one incense in a single tabernacle in the dessert, but rather tons of incense being swung at every new moon festival, no longer prayer in barren mountains, but now a full on Hiram Abiff Masonry type Ashteroth cult in the hills of Jerusalem) are being cast out, including worship on high places, any sacrifices of animal fat, and incense at an alter. It is recognized in the original scriptures as the practices of slaves being weaned from their pagan ways, which have now devolved again into pagan idolatry and need to be stopped in entirety.

The Isis ra Elis were not the model adherents, and as scripture attests, were highly prone to their pagan slave roots, especially when stoked and led by the KAINanaite-Phoenician Pharisees (children of Kain) including Baal worship, child sacrifice, Molek worship, ritual origies, Solar cult practices, and Queen of Heaven adoration.

@JBL

Now let’s return to the earlier persecution of scientific thinkers as “heretics,” and their destruction murder and exile.

The origenism that Theophilus slaughtered 10,000 over professed allegorical readings of the scripture. That was its great heresy which got them genocides in 400 AD. I am here showing you not only the allegorical aspect of scripture, but also the scientific and mathematic, if Theophilus was willing to massacre 10,000 for believing scripture contains allegory (and it isn’t literal), imagine what he would do to me?

Then moving forward we find this same movement being condemned by Justinian the Eastern Emperor in 543 AD in the “Second Origenism Crisis.” He ordered all of their texts burned and their peoples persecuted. That’s the Catholic way “I don’t like what you have to say so BURN IT!”

Right… I’ll then direct you to look at the Theodosian decrees around this same period of the 380-460 AD period, which resulted in tons of senseless violence in the name of “Heresy.” You must understand that the church couches this stuff in rhetoric of victories over paganism, Manichean Christians and Synagogues. However, if you start digging into the artifacts, you will find there was an enormous push to burn all centers of learning and institutions of intellectual thought and consolidate power; the consequence was thus a consolidation of all intellectual capacity into the hands of few, fuedalism, and strict orthodoxy that allows for no freedom of thought.

This is why Christian Europe then underwent 600 years of scientific backsliding, and why academics of Europe flocked to the Islamic caliphate to learn.

I’ll copy here more regarding the edicts and persecution of Manichaeans as “heretics,” being persecuted and burned. Was some of this religious and political, surely, but then the teachings of Yeshua do not profess violence and persecution against those whose ideals you disagree with. However, most of it, hidden underneath this veil of “anti heresy,” resulted in the scientific thinkers being exterminated or forced underground. For millennia. All of this by state and church decree by those who claimed to love the message of Yeshua, a man of pure compassion and non-violence.

“The following are the Imperial edicts launched against Manichæism: Diocletian Alexandria, 31 March, 296) commands the Proconsul of Africa to persecute them, he speaks of them as a sordid and impure sect recently come from Persia, which he is determined to destroy root and branch (stirpitus amputari). Its leaders and propagators must be burnt, together with their books; the rank and file beheaded, people of note condemned to the mines, and their goods confiscated. This edict remained at least nominally in force under Constantine, and Constantius. Under Julian the Apostate, Manichæism seems to have been tolerated. Valentinian I and Gratian, though tolerant of other sexts made exception of the Manichæans. Theodosiusb byan edict of 381, declared Manichæans to be without civil rightsand incapable of testamentary disposition. In the following year he condemned them to death under the name of Encratites Saccophores. Valentina II confiscated their goods, annulled their wills, and sent them into exile. Honorius in 405 renewed the edicts of his predecessors, and fined all governors of cities or provinces who were remiss in carrying out his orders; he invalidated all their contracts, declared them outlaws and public criminals. In 445 Valentinoan III renewed the edicts of his predecessors; Anastasius condemned all Manichæans to death; Justin and Justinian decreed the desth penalty not only against Manichæans who remained obstinate in their heresy, but even against converts from Manichæism who remained in touch with their former co-religionists, or who did not at once denounce them to the magistrates. Heavy penalties were likewise decreed against all State officials who did not denounce their colleagues, if infected with Manichæism, and against all those who retained Manichæan books. It was a war of extermination and was apparently successful, within the confines of the Byzantine Empire.

We then find the same behavior regarding the “Paulicians,” in the 7th-9th century Eastern Roman Empire, which were forced to establish their own state to avoid persecution of the Porto Eastern Orthodox Church. This included not only temple destructions but mass murder and official edicts against them.

Constantine Silvanus, their founder was arrested by church led imperial authorities and stoned to death by Eastern Orthodox Christians; another spit in the face of the words of Yeshua, who said only May he who has never sinned cast the first stone. I don’t agree with the paulicians teachings, but they were quite scientific regarding some things, and the stoning is clearly in contraversion to the very words of Yeshua.

They were more tolerated in the 8th century, but then again in the 10th and 11th century throughout Asia Minor, any followers of the beliefs were terrorized, exiled and murdered.

This is where you can see that scientific thought, politics, and persecution against anyone who disagreed with orthodox dogma became rolled into one. Separating them out specifically can be difficult due to distortions of history (the church controlled anyone who was literate in the period.) it is not a purely post schism Catholic phenomena, but one which only becomes more easy to see after the schism, when unilateral monolithic control of the world began to disintegrate, and yea, then the churches wolffish fangs became much bloodier as it tried to devour all opposition to its total control of the mind, resources, and souls of Europe and the near East.

The successor of the founder of Pauliciains, a man stoned to de@th for his differing beliefs from Eastern 0rthodox Dogma in 660 AD, was actually the imperial guard that executed the church and imperial authorities orders to apprehend “the heretic,” who was then stones to death.This man, I believe who is called Titus, then became the leader of the Paulicians, until he too was persecuted and then BURNED TO DEATH in 690 AD for heresy by church officials. That’s the Catholic way from day 1, burn and stone whoever says things you don’t like.

After a period of relative tolerance in the 700s, it was then again under Eastern Orthodox “Christian”Byzantine empress Theodora that in the 840s AD, over 100,000 people of Paulicianisn, that’s right ONE HINDRED THOUSAND, were proclaimed heretics and brutally hunted and murdered and had their property taken by the state from their heirs. How very typical Catholic of them; genocide, theft, under the proclamations of false piousness.

Ive grown weary of your repeated assertions that this behaviour exists only after the schism. My hope was you would do your own research (more than a filtered G00gl3 search that is heavily narrative controlled by The church itself) and not make me compile the most glaringly obvious atrocities throughout your churches history. The moment it became the “Roman Catholic” church, it was a bloodbath of persecuting anyone who dare think or believe differently than the orthodox dogma:

10,000 by a pope of his own people in 400 AD
50,000+ under the Theodocian decrees in 396-490 AD,
25,000 from the ecumenical councils establishing “Orthodoxy” from 400-700 AD
90,000+ by Justinian and his bishops and successors from 550-690 AD,
100,000+ under Theodora in the 830s-840s AD.

And then we get the wonderful whimsical era of witch burning and the cathars and The crusades, crusades your own Eastern Orthodox Church supported and called for…

It is and was continual JBL; and J have not even spoken of the most obvious and terrible atrocities against Isis Ra Eli’s and the Aryeh Yehudah so as to remove what you may perceive as bias. I’m presenting you historical facts.

And herein lies the practicality of everything I’m telling you; if the people were to have the combined knowledge of the history, languages, mathematics, true scriptural sayings, and the deep wisdom of YHWH, none of this would have ever happened, nor would it continue to happen today. The entirety of human history would be massively different.

Photo

@JBL

I decided to simply go ahead and give you the full lesson 101 on the ancient Archeo-mathematics and Archeo-astronomy of this sarcophogus (which covers everything up to the quadratic residuals and modulus congruences, as well as geometric distances, which were used ina cryptographic system to compress data).

Look at the photo below before you begin reading:

Originally, I gave you the short hand of 37*8= 296 days for the markings of the visible Sirius, which indeed matches up with the 7th word of Berashit 1:1. Regardless of anything on the sarcophogus, It would certainly be an incredible coincidence that the 7th word of Berashit is the same number of days as Sirius is visible from earth, which equals 37*8.

I gave you this 37*8 short hand in the hope you would start properly counting the details, using what is known in mathematics as enumerative combinatorics. This branch of mathematics (counting stuff) is the basis for all of humanity’s mathematical and scientific developments over the past 50,000 years, and it is extremely important to the bible and prophecy. In fact, the ancient Aryeh Yehudah combined this field with kinematics (marking the postional vectors of objects), to reveal the secrets of the Keys to the Domain of the Cosmos in the simplest, most visual form possible for humanity.
Now you can see I have marked the numbers on the left wing, which is 37*2 and the right wing which is 38*2 complete wings+ a 0.25 incomplete feather at the end (remember that Sirius period is 365.25 days). This gives us 74 feathers on the left side, and 76 on the right, making an Even 150 days, which doubles out to 300, not 296. You can theoretically discount two of these feathers on either side due to markings which no longer seperate the feathers, making 296, but I will omit this, because this requires several more mythological algebraic steps.

Instead, we find that Anubis, representing Sirius in the sky as the dog star, sits atop a T Bar balance, where two pieces dangle on either side “balancing” him. this is a subtraction of 4, and thus 300-4 = 296. It also represnts the 3 years it takes for the extra .25 day to return to an integer, as we still say today, we add a day every 4 years to make a “leap year.”

Next, at the bottom of the SARcophogus below, we find 56 lines in 14 sections, which is 14*4. Why 56 and 14? There are two very clear reasons:
A) 14 is 1/2 the 28 day Lunar Visibility Period (it is completely dark for 1.5 days). This is why our week is 7 days

B) 56 is Twice the 28 day Lunar Visibility Period, and 14*4 = 56 (hence it is 2 Lunar visibility periods divided into 2 weeks each.)

What a coincidence that Berashit(h) 1:1 is 28 Letters long!! Except, it’s not. It is the harmonization function for the Solar and Lunar Cycle, which if you wish I will give you in its full modern mathematical notation.

See the bottom of the picture regarding Yeshua’s words around the 14 “mansions” which is actually “MONo-AI” the one eye, which is the Moon. The modern translation is another piece of abomination to the words of Yeshua, which to any speaker of Greek is clearly referencing “(Lunar) Stations,” (not some super duper awesome house we get to have a sleep over in) which are the 14 days which is 1/2 the Lunar visibility period before it reaches Lunar Maximum, aka Full Moon. Note it appears in John 14:2, 14 days *2 = 28, the Lunar Visibility period and the number of letters in Berashit 1:1.

We can also look and find this exact same pattern of the 14, and 56, connected by 37 (remember that the sum of Berashit 1:1 is 37*73, 2701) regarding the world “Selah,” in the psalms.

Nobody seems to understand what “Selah,” means anymore, except I’ll go ahead and demistify it: It is this exact same measurement of 14 days which divides Twice the Lunar Visibility period of 56 days into 4 equal parts. סֶלָה “Selah” is used 74 times in the Bible, which is, 37*2, just like the number of feathers on the Right Wing here on the Sar-Kaf-Agus.

It is used 71 times in the Psalms. 71*14 = 994, which is the total number of Solar Eclipses in a 325 year Sar, including partial solar eclipses (there are 666 total or Annular.)

Likewise 74*14 = 1036. 1036 days / 14 = 37, this same number as the feathers on the left wing of the Sar-Kaf-Agus. The language, the math, and the astronomical phenomena line up perfectly.

Strange coincidence that Sirius rises in the “dog days” of the month of “Agus-tus…” and that the Greek deity and word Αὐγή “Auge,” means “SUNBEAM/DAWN OF FLASHING LIGHT.” also note that 1036 days is exactly 27.01 days short of a true 3 lunar years (1063.01 days) which also include the 1.53 day dark period of the moon, just like those 3 horizontal lines (for 3 lunar years), and just as Berashit 1:1 sums to 2701. Ever wonder why the Catholic Church shoves the “Trinity,” down your throat, without any scriptural basis? Now you know.

Sar = Eclipse, and it means “beast” in Hebrew.
Kaf = The 11th letter of the Hebrew Alef-bet, which is the Palm curved (just like Sopdet’s hand holding her wings). An average human Palm in this shape measures 9.73 degrees of the sky, hence 37 palms go across the Sky! 37*9.73. and 9/11.
Auge = Dawning of a Flashing Light..
“The Dawning of The Beast’s flashing Light.” It is not a coincidence that the Isis-Ra-Elis worshipped a Golden Kaf of o-SAR-us (The Apis Bull…) when moshe went up the mountain.

If we turn our focus back to the Sar-Kaf-Augus function to the Lunar and Solar years, we can add the 56 lines to the original unsubtracted 300 feathers, and obtain 356, which is the longest lunar year possible (it varies between a minimum of 354-356 days each year, where only the average is 354.36707).
We then find the 9 hanging silver pieces at the end, and 356+9 = 365! we add in our 1/4 feather and obtain 365.25 the Period of Sirius and nearly exactly the length of the Solar year! Hence in a way which is somewhat encrypted (requiring knowledge of mythology and celestial motion as observed from Earth) perfectly balanced calendar of Sirius, the Lunar, and Solar years.
And then why the three horizontal lines? Other than the three Lunar years I’ve l already mentioned, Well, because this is all about eclipse tracking of “The Beast,” which is the Sar (The True meaning of the phrase, And the Dragon gave the Beast it’s power, the Lunar DRACONITIC nodes.) After all, this is a SAR-Kaf-Augus.

It just so happens (not coincidentally) that the 56 vertical lines in 14 houses, and the 3 horizontal lines align perfectly with the archeo-astronomical proof of Frederick Hoyle which he published in the 1960s regarding The 56 Aubrey Holes of Stone Henge and Saros Eclipse predictions. I’ll just take a quote directly from Wikipedia regarding Hoyle’s proof, as it does a good job of keeping it simple:

“In 1966 Sir Fred Hoyle examined the arguments in favour of an astronomical purpose for the holes and concluded that the 28 day lunar cycle could still have been indicated by moving a marker stone representing the moon anticlockwise by two holes every day, ending up with 56 holes in total. By moving another marker anticlockwise two holes every 13 days, which represented the Sun, an annual journey around the circle could also be made. Two further marker stones would also have had to be moved round 3 holes per year to represent the points where the moon (or rather its marker) crossed the Sun marker’s path. Hoyle proved that this could have been used to produce a much more reliable method of predicting eclipses as whenever the moon and sun markers are directly opposite each other and the other two stones occupy those same opposing points, an eclipse can be guaranteed. This also has the additional benefit of not needing any standing stones to be present at the site.“

Keep in mind that the Pyramids of Giza and Stonehenge were built essentially simultaneously in history, both erected right around 2500 BCE. This is because they were erected using the same teachings/designs of the Aryeh Yehudah, using the exact same mathematical system, at a hyper precise distance that allowed for continuing with perfect measurements of the Earth and Cosmos.

Hoyle’s explanation also mentions 13 days for moving a marker to keep reliable track of eclipse marking. Look at the line that runs below Sopdet’s feathered wings. It runs all the way on her Left side, underneath all 38 feathers, while on the other side it only runs underneath 18, cutting off at her knee. 38+18 = 56 (again). 56 days is exactly 13 days short of the 69 day period between the disappearance of Sirius and it’s Heliacal rising again.
“In my father’s house there are many Mono-Eyes.” JON (which means Oannes the Fish teacher, coming from the Egyptian word “Jon,” for Fish) 14:2… 14*2 = 28 *2 = 56.

I am trying to give you the Moon-Keys to the Domain of the Cosmos.

@A E @Ralphie 225 @thekwon@arif@Hollow Logs @Igageharleya take this as a preview to Chapter Xi, which will be discussing these topics and how it relates to the periodic Kata-Astro-Phis and the relationship to the fractal mechanics of the cosmos and celestial motion which determine the prophecy of the Serpent being hurled into the abyss under The Key of Truth. It will also reveal the true nature behind the Sphinx, and its relationship to “Atlantis.”

“Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended.”

The Keys to the Domain of the Cosmos is The Truth so the nations may not be deceived any longer.

@arif i am doing fine, last few weeks been a true test for me but everything is good. Finally I found my lost inner light and i am trying so hard everyday to cherish all that. My mind is at peace as well. I need to achievie tranquility on all levels. Be good my friend, best for you and your family.

@444gem

It is a just Muppet show. Literally everyday is a “made up scandal” to divide even more separated people. I am not following news but i hear sometimes or read what’s going on. As you know, Christian church occult is very rooted in our history but now we are again in the medieval times. Church become so involved in politics that basically it is the law. Now we have a “scandal” with pope JP the 2nd amd his involved in vatican pedophilia and how he covered everything up, therefore the generation of JP2 ( yes, that is real thing) is in battle with everybody else. We used to be a strong nation, mentally stable, we could thrive, now? Now we are so divided and full of hate to each other it’s very sad. Situation with Ukraine only put more oil into the big fire, the government is just a pure circus. They laughing in our faces and do what they wilt. I am awaiting on the day when the crap hit the fan. The air is very dense and soon something will blow up. But i am all good, thanks to you lot. I am here but trying to not spend all my energy on it. I got most of the answers i wanted and the rest is up to me only. Be well, Gem. Be well.

Thank you @444gem for explanation of his name. I was 80% right. I smiled. Yes, his occult is the worst. I forgot to mention that financially people here are really struggling. Credit rates, mortgages, food, fuel, everything went up dramatically. When we entered EU farmers sold their lands, many took donation and instead of investing in progress they bought cars, renovate houses etc. A hillbillies entered the big world. At least that’s what they thought. Now there are consequences of this. None of them is laughing anymore. Gov is trying so hard to get to me at the moment because i am 90% self efficient and they taxed everything in here. Soon we will have a battler next to you in the toilet saying “that’s ebough, only one flush”. The thing is, they got nothing on me, no debts no credits, mortgages, nothing, so i am not slaved by them and they don’t like this. Still many people are like me but it will come to an end eventually, i know this. May i ask about the progress on monkeys? I know it’s time for everything and i am very patient but there are still few pieces missing that hopefully your continuation and knowledge will help to solve.

@444gem

Thank you as always. I do have some specific questions that i know some you probably won’t answer and i understamd that but with few i believe you could help me a lot. I will make a list and post it shortly if that’s fine with you, Gem. There are historical, geographical, few “secrets” i would like to get a hint where to go, and few just out of my curiosity that won’t change nothing and reaction will be “Oh, okay, so that’s how it works”.

@lgageharleya

You helped me a lot in my dark moments, is there anything i can do to help you? I mean conversation as we are separated by couple of thousand kilometers and this is the wall.

Be good AE

Thank you for sharing your emotions with me. It makes me sad a little bit seeing person who helped me a lot being in pain and suffer. You know what helped me the past few months? I finally understamd and i stuck this in my head that, hey, i am aware of things, I’ve always been aware but tried to do something about it. That was my mistake. I asked many times Yhwh to show me things that are not visible for other people. Few weeks later boom, Gem and his seriers appeared. And it was continuing like that. I asked to show me how to deal with my anger, next day i have this situation that put me under the test, will i be calm and minded focused or i will react with emotions again. I noticed that. So, after all your good words, and the others, i finally realized that i need to stop thinking about certain stuff or, not take it so seriously and personally. I tried to convert people but that was mistake as well. Then @Ralphie said something and i am following this. He said, sorry for mistramslation, may everything you are be everything you see. When i was in dark place j could only see darkness around me, and every good deed was like a grain of sand in the desert. I turned my emotions and brain to start thinking different. Deep inside, i am a good person, so i started to see good everywhere and not paying any attention to evil anymore. Some time ago when i woke uo my 1st thought was “another crappy day, let’s see what i will have to fight against with again. Then, my day was ruined because i saw stupidity, idiots, just people in general. Then Gem said to me in one post that, just because i am seeking the Truth, it makes me stronger than any other king that went to battle. Then he said that i should be happy with what i know and feel empathy towards, i like his word, normies. Took me a while but i knew this is the way (not mandalorian reference). Like i said to you many times, i was prisoner of my own mind and head. I found the way how to change this. Because of you guys and guidance you all gave me. Recently, i parked somewhere, there was this big suv on the parking lot. He couldn’t get out and start shouting to other people. I was the first car so he tried to have a go with me that i have to reverse etc as he cannot get out. Normally, i would just go absolutely mayhem. This time, i looked at him smiled and said ” don’t try to blame otger peoppe for your own stupidity” he just went pyrple and didn’t know what to say. He got angry, reversed very aggressive and smashed his bumper on the stopper. It will be selfish what i will say but i felt just amazing. I was calm, have the respond ready as always but instead of fighting fire with fire, i did the opposite. You guys told me once that if i will redirects ny anger and use it in good qay i will become stronger. You know what? It really worked. Now, insteas of shouting to people and getting angry, i react with smile, normal breathing, and emotions at ease. You are not alone, i was angry and upset too when i discovered some facts, but, i am so gratefull i did. This, is my biggest achievement in my life, not many people are willing and capable to change. I know that, battle against mysekf was the bloodies, exhausting and devastating I’ve ever had in my life. I started to enjoy small things like eating breakfast and listening to the birds and wind and nature. My time is limited unfortunately and soon many things will change, but at least i know, that i am not ashame of myself anymore. I talk to the Father daily but i know when i ask him for something, i have to give 100% to do something about it, otherwise i felt really embarrassed when i asked for so.ething, it has been given to me and i did mothing aith it, i atarted to think, why bother soeaking with Father if i am not making any progress? So, now when i ask for something and got it one way or another, i am so grateful, we, truth seekers are already marked and different than other people. Be proud of it. It is only a small %. Apologies for many subjects but i wanted to share my last few months. It’s been good, actually it’s been great and this is a new feeling for me because it was always bad, but, it could be my fault as well. I know some of your pain as you shared with me, and now i am going to tell you this, done overthink. Ease your thoughts and mind, i did some nasty sh1t in the past, i used to think about it daily but with knowledge i got right now i wont make the same mistakes again, i said many things tgat i won’t say anymore, and that’s the result. We evolve when we learn. Now instead escalating conflict, i an using my brain and knowledge and emotions to descalate it. If like you said father could forgive me, why i cannot do the same for myself but with only change to not to do it again. I can read the room and sometimes i know the result regardless. With my knowledge and some skills, it’s up to me how i react. Apologizes if this doesn’t make any sense at all. I tried. To be honest, there is just one question that i would like to know the answer for but i understand why @444gem is not willing to answer it. It is literally one question. What will happen after we die. What’s next. It bothers me, but perhaps one day i will have my answer, hopefully it will happen before i die as then i will have my answer anyway haha. I know we’ve been fooled for centuries, that hurts but now with what you know, you can actuallt make a change. Not for normies, for you, your family and the ones you lost. Do you think your unborn child wouldn’t forget you what you did? It happened, we all makes mistakes. Sometimes influenced by others, but you suffered enough already and i believe Father already forgive you, so your children. But what is the change? You won’t do it again because you are rich in knowledge, experience and emotions. That’s the change.

Be well. Best to you.

@lgageharleya

Yes i opened that wound on purpose. You were firm and plain with me so i decided to do the same. You told me to deal with my inner anger and i did, on my own terms, i think we are alike in so many emotional ways. I dealt with my past and let that burden go, perhaps it’s the time for you to do the same? We can’t change what we did, but you can change your future. It took me years to figure it out but i finally did. You can’t live in the present while keep thinking about the past am i right? I’ve been there and you know my pain and struggles. You did what you did, yes, but learn from that and give your children and husband doubled love. Our past doesn’t define us. Only our deeds tell the truth about ourselves.

Best AE

@Maciej

It is wonderful to know that you have come so far, so fast. The ability to forgive oneself is a tremendous blessing on your journey, keep that at heart.

As you have now discovered, if you ask, seek, and knock, you will receive; speaking with YHWH in nature or a quiet place is a tremendously powerful tool. Our father knows all, but taking the effort and intention to speak forth your word of Truth before him, without presupposition, carries an incredible power to free us from all our binds.

Continue your journey, allow yourself room for mistakes, and many blessings.

@arif

Thank you for sharing your struggles with us. I will keep you in my prayers of course. I am going to look further into the chapters you have discussed, as the Koran is a weaker area of my literary knowledge (I have read it through but found it to be so derivative and Encoded with Archonic language that I have not spent as much time dissecting each chapter.)

Is there a specific question you would like answered?

Thank you most sincerely, @444gem. I’ll address your points one at a time. I’m going to collapse most of my response for points 1 and 2 into a single point (1), leaving a second, shorter response to the wider question of Christianity and science in (2). (1), as you will see, is quite long enough on its own; but I think it of the utmost importance to approach these questions with such care and historical sensitivity as I can muster.

(1) Please do refer me to the rare and expensive books that you have mentioned; I am willing to spend good money for books if I feel they are worth it, and I would certainly entertain the possibility in this case.

As for the example you have given of the massacre of the monks by Theophilus, you twice brought it up in our prior conversations, and, upon your second mention, I determined to review all the source material that I could find to assess what substance was in your charge. I posted a lengthy, and, if not exhaustive, at least fairly thorough response to you there. As our conversation at that point was pursuing several strands simultaneously, all located in different parts of the comment board, it is entirely possible you never saw this (also because, at the time, I did not yet know that directing a message @ someone was the only way of making sure they would be advised of it); if you would like, I will gladly repost it here.

For the moment, I’ll briefly sum up my findings.

The 10,000 figure comes exclusively from the Synaxarion, which does not record its sources. But such a figure — and indeed, suggestion of a massacre of any kind — is not found in any of the primary sources, though the historians who wrote them were to a one hostile toward Theophilus. Even Palladius, who was a friend of the monks in question and had lived with them for an entire year, and thus had every reason to exaggerate Theophilus’ crimes, only with palpable hesitation imputes a single death to the violence at Nitria. Despite the lack of records of actual homicide, Theophilus was universally condemned for his actions by subsequent commentators, and his memory was cast into a sort of infamy, which was compounded still the more by his conflict with St. John Chrysostom. All of this leads me conclude that, rather than a thousandfold massacre covered up subsequently by obsequious historiographers, the evidence seems to point in precisely the opposite direction: the event in question was most likely exaggerated to the extreme by some over-zealous Synaxarion scribe, intent on further blackening the name of a man who had already fallen into universal disesteem. There is no evidence that a massacre of any large number of monks occurred at all (much less of 10,000 souls), and overwhelming evidence that the Church as a body stands and has always stood opposed to such crimes as were committed.

I will now consider, one by one, the other crimes you have alleged, though I do not know where you are drawing most of the figures you present. Might I ask specifically where you are getting the numbers for Theodosius, Justinian, and the deaths following the Councils? Perhaps the aforementioned rare books? (The number for Theodora is clear enough, though not unproblematic: I’ll discuss that in its place below.)

To begin, you have stated that the Councils of the Church “resulted in at least 25,000+ needless deaths” from 400-700 AD. Beyond the fact that there is absolutely no record of which I am aware that suggests even a tiny fraction of this number, the claim itself is ambiguous; a man’s action “resulting in” a death is very different from that same man killing, or ordering the execution of, a given individual. For instance, if some madman were to read the things that you and I have both written about the global elite, and were to go on a shooting spree in the town of Davos as a consequence, no one in their right mind would say that you and I had caused the murder. The political situation in Rome at the time of the Councils was highly unstable, and often degenerated into local chaos and violent mobs for a variety of complicated reasons. Supposing some given riot in a city led to 100 people being killed (which would have made it unusually violent, incidentally), some of them of putative heretics at the hands of putative Christians, but against the declarations and the wishes of the Church, are these deaths to be heaped at the door of the Church itself?

Now, had such enormous massacres taken place, it would surely be possible to find at least some passing mention of them in pagan writing, particularly in private correspondence and works produced during the rein of Julian the Apostate, when an anti-Christian author’s hand would not be staid by fear of legal repercussions. Let me name just a few examples of the kind of pagan writers I mean — individuals who, we may well assume, were not “church controlled.”

Libanius had numerous altogether civil correspondences with Christians of the time, going so far as to support them when the new measures of Emperor Julian pushed them out of their positions and offices; in his missives to fellow pagans, meanwhile, he does not lament any kind of particular violence of the Christians against the pagans. Ammianus Marcellinus takes a similarly benevolent view of his Christian fellows; he is not afraid to be critical of them, but never observes any acts of religious violence. Quintus Aurelius Symmachus, who actively opposed Gratian’s taking the Altar of Victory from the curia, had much to critique in Christian views and Christian sectarianism, but nothing to say about Christian violence. Olympiodorus of Thebes, another dedicated pagan who was firmly against the Christian destruction or removal of pagan shrines, temples and idols, and who does not spare his readers some very gruesome and gory details about events unrelated to the Christians, nowhere speaks of Christian violence. Zosimus, writing from a profoundly anti-Christian position, was one of the first historians to introduce the Gibbonian trope that the fall of Rome was owing to the rise of Christianity, and fiercely criticized the Christian Emperors, particularly Constantine (in many of the terms that you yourself have used in our conversations, incidentally); yet never once does he mention the massacre (or even the odd killing) of heretics or pagans at the hands of Christians.

Now, would not one of these men have been likely to make at least a passing reference to the Christian slaughter of pagans, had such massacres been taking place with the regularity, and in the quantity, you have suggested? To be sure, many of the lives and works of these men attest to a growing legal and social pressure on the pagan communities of the time; but no where can I find so much as a single whisper of an organized and intensive campaign to murder non-believers, whether heretics or pagan, in the first six centuries AD. The major gripe of the pagans is that their practices were suppressed, some of their religious objects and placed destroyed, and their social positions damaged; but as for any widespread attacks on pagan persons or even their property, there is hardly a jot. Indeed, it is easier to find references in these works to the persecution of Christians under Julian, than of heretics or pagans under any of the emperors you have named.

Do correct me if I am wrong, Gem, and point me to sources that can enlighten me regarding my errors.

Next, you estimate 50,000+ deaths under the Theodocian decrees. I do not know where you might be getting anything near this number, unless you are counting the wars that Theodosius carried out, and his massacre of the Thessalonicans, neither of which have anything to do with suppression of pagans or heresies, and the latter of which was strongly condemned by the Church itself. Beyond these, there did occur during his reign the first recorded execution of a heretic, carried out by civil, and not ecclesiastical, authorities, and again vehemently opposed by members of the Church, including Ambrose, Bishop of Milan, and there seem to be a few other scattered cases of men put to death for ambiguous reasons that may or may not have any direct connection to their heretical beliefs, for crimes that are not recorded. Beyond these very limited cases, I can find nothing. There were even certain events, as in the anti-Christian violence preceding the destruction of the Serapeum, in which Theodosius actually spared the lives of pagan leaders who had been guilty of actually murdering Christians; if ever there were a pretext for a blood-thirsty emperor to have his way of his enemies, this was it, and yet we see only forbearance from Theodosius. The laws Theodosius put in place were certainly hard, and one can well speak (if one has a liking for our modern lingo) of legal and social persecution; but even here, it was almost impossible to convince anyone to carry these laws out, because in most places in the empire, the Christians and the pagans lived in a state of sometimes tense, but usually stable, equilibrium. Moreover, pagans occupied high posts even under Theodosius (e.g. the consuls Tatianus and Symmachus, whom he himself appointed), despite the strong rhetoric of his decrees. The major new laws that he put in place seem to have been less aimed at the pagans as such, than at their practices, and in particular the haruspices and blood sacrifices, the first of which was more a political than a religious concern (the “next emperor” was often identified by divination, leading to great political unrest), the second particularly (and for unimpeachable reasons) abhorrent to the Christians.

In short, the idea that thousands, not to say tens of thousands, of people were killed for breach of the Theodocian decrees is sustained by precisely no evidence from the period, whether literary, archeological or otherwise, that I have been able to uncover.

Your estimate swells to a dizzying 90,000+ beneath Justinian, his bishops, and his successors; that is a wide swath of history and covers a great many names, so it is difficult for me to evaluate it, but I can certainly find no indication whatsoever of anything approaching that number. Under Justinian, the persecutions were sharpened, leading in many cases to the confiscation of property and the imprisonment of non-believers; but civil executions were not carried out, certainly widely, perhaps at all. There are also episodes of violence in return for violence, when certain pagan groups brought the sword against Christians in various parts of the Empire; in these cases, the response was, one might well argue, disproportionate and vicious from a Christian point of view. One might also argue (though on what grounds save the most perfectly conjectural, I can’t imagine) that the reports of the violence of these groups was merely a cover to justify armed persecution. And so be it. I can accept both that these actions were not Christian, and that they may have been actually motivated by a secret agenda; but we are talking about excesses of state, not the will of the Church. It is also worth noting that all measures (as elimination from posts, confiscation of property, etc.) taken against pagans were taken, not for their beliefs, but for their public teachings or their criminal actions. Whether or not such penalties were excessive is another matter; the point is that they were punished for actions touching on legitimate concerns of a public order, not private decisions to personally adhere to this or that error.

At this point we come to the first figure which seems to be best borne out by the sources, and the first episode which one could potentially interpret as genocide: namely, the 100,000 Paulicians killed beneath Theodora. The figure of 100,000 itself comes to us from a single Christian historian writing 100 years afterward, who condemned these events as a disaster to the Empire. It is obviously an extreme exaggeration; the full army of the whole Empire amounted to only a slightly larger figure.

Be that as it may, there is no question we are dealing with a slaughter. The claim at bottom is that the Paulicians were targeted for their heretical beliefs and were extirpated violently, trunk and branch, for this reason; but this corresponds in no way to what we know of the time, or of the history preceding it. In the first place, if the Paulicians were eliminated for their heretical beliefs, then why were other heretical communities spared? The Athinganoi, the Tetradites, the Iconoclasts, the Monophysites, the Miaphysites, the Khurramiyya and even the Jews, though they all faced a number of legal proscriptions regarding their public worship and teaching, were not subject to campaigns of extermination, though it would have been very easy, from a military point of view, to eradicate certain of these groups utterly by the sword — much easier, in fact, than in the case of the Paulicians, who lived both within the Empire and peripherally to it, and there in large, well-armed populations. Indeed, there were some violent men who wished to bring the death penalty against the Iconoclasts, and to this end attempted to associate them with the Paulicians, meaning that the Paulicians were subject to harsher laws than were men who had in the recent past been responsible for persecuting and executing Christians. Why were the Paulicians in particular so despised?

The Paulicians (insofar as one can speak of a single group) were mainly from Armenia, though they later expanded through proselytizing. Armenia at that time was a fractious and rebellious part of the Empire, full of militarized bands that terrorized the countryside. This land was filled with heretical or idiosyncratic groups, and all of these were left for the most part in peace. For the early part of their history, the Paulicians seem to have adopted a strategy of privacy and evasion, moving from place to place to be left to their own devices; this is the reason they were almost never so much as mentioned before the middle part of the eighth century. So long as this status quo was maintained, the Empire tolerated them, and even stood in amicable relations with them.

But at least by the time of the first persecutions (by Michael I and Leo V), certain portions of the Paulician community had militarized and formed around fortresses in the borderlands of the Empire, from which they raided the Empire, often in collusion with the Muslims, who had become the major threat to Roman rule. Since much of the basis of this is taken from Muslim accounts of the Paulicians as well as Christian, it cannot be regarded as mere Church propaganda. These practices, which at first were likely only present in part of the Paulician community, crystalized into a kind of doctrinal and violent anti-imperial sentiment when the early persecutions took place. By the time of Theodora, the Paulicians had essentially taken up arms against the Empire and entered into full rebellion, and this is the reason they were targeted. That this was not a war on heresy is again indicated by the fact that there is no evidence of the Church’s participation in any of these decisions, which would have technically been necessary if these were acts taken against heretics as such.

Note as well that even in the years intervening between the early persecution and the later, the situation was by no means clear-cut; there are Paulicians who rose even to political positions in the provinces. There is no sign whatsoever of a uniform and maniacal campaign to eliminate these people as such, and the attack on them is surely better understood in the mosaic of military campaigns being carried out in that period to secure the Empire’s confines. The Paulicians who died in this battle were not religious casualties, but political and military casualties. Whether Theodora’s actions were justifiable on those grounds is another question.

I do not deny that their heretical beliefs, and the evident charismatic appeal of their evangelizing, made them still more abhorrent to the Romans, and further justified Theodora’s cause; but the point is that these beliefs and that success were not alone sufficient to justify the sword. It is also worth noting that the spread of Paulician belief even to the very heat of the Empire is itself a marker of the fact that the Eastern Romans did not oppress heretical beliefs with an iron fist.

Now, you could well argue — and you would find me sympathetic — that the real blame here lies with the previous emperors like Michael I and Leo V, who had indeed violently persecuted this group, and murdered individuals within it, and here perhaps really on the basis of the group’s heretical beliefs alone. Here, I will join you, Gem, in condemning these actions in the strongest terms, and saying that violence and death are never to be brought against men for their beliefs alone. For a man’s conscience cannot be won by the sword, and to cut his life short is identical to truncating his possibility to repent. Furthermore, violence begets only violence, and the subsequent history of the Empire itself, which finally found the Paulicians forming an independent hostile state, is a demonstration in action of this principle.

But I must also note that the Church itself, in the person of monks and patriarchs, actually attempted to stay the hand of these emperors in all the cases I have found, and spoke out against their actions in private correspondences and public declarations. The Church in many cases obstructed crimes like these from taking place — massacres no one speaks about, precisely because, thanks to the Church, they never took place. It was not the Church which murdered the leaders of this sect, and it was not the Church that took up military action against them later. The state acted with wilful independence from its rightful spiritual head and paid the consequences, in a pattern that was repeated too often throughout the first millennium. Yet it is indeed a sign of the Church’s moderating influence on secular powers that there were not far more extensive campaigns waged against the pagans and heretics than what we actually see. For it is truly remarkable that, in an Empire which had never in its heathen past hesitated to liberally apply capital punishment to perceived dissidents and enemies of state, pagans and heretics were almost never subjected to the same purges that the pagans themselves had brought against the Christians in the early centuries, and even in some cases in the first centuries after Christianity formally came to power.

This seems a fitting juncture to add note on the quotation you have provided from the Catholic Encyclopedia regarding the edicts against the Manicheans, sentencing them to burning, decapitation, labor in mines, etc. etc. A couple of points here. The first (and by far the worst) of these prescribed penalties were put in place before the Christian rise to power, by the pagan Diocletian, and at a time when Rome was generally fairly tolerant of foreign beliefs, which leads one to wonder why precisely the Manicheans? The Christians and the Manicheans were the only groups touched by Diocletian’s proscriptions — the Jews, for instance, were not targeted. On a review of certain letters exchanged during the Tetrarchy, it appears that the concern with the Manicheans was three-fold: first, that the Manicheans, a new religion, were contemptuous of old religions; second, that they had been committing various crimes in the provinces (of what sort it is not clear); and third, that they were thought to be connected by national or political sympathies to the Persians, the enemies of the Romans. The actions taken against them were again taken from political motives, not religious ones. There is no reason to believe that this concern abated during the Christian era. Yet on the whole, in the Christian era, we still see a relaxation and even a qualified moderation of these punishments, albeit with certain noteworthy exceptions.

We might also take this as a good litmus test for just what the laws in question actually effected: for if they hail all the way back to 296, and if they remained in effect during the following centuries, with only a brief respite for Julian, how is it possible there were still Manicheans at the time of Augustine of Hippo, who became a Manichean in Carthage around 370? The existence of a law on the books in the Roman era does not equate to the deployment of that law in the streets. This should be borne in mind while reading many of the harsher decrees against heretics and pagans of that era.

You have also mentioned the 14 Orléans heretics. The charges brought against them were considerably graver than you have allowed, but having said that, even if the worst accusations were were true to a one, I agree with you that they should not have been burned. I am deeply disturbed to find that, in all the letters extant which speak of this event by Christian clergy, not one of them seems to oppose it. But what is troubling about these events is precisely that they represent a distancing from the view which had sustained and characterized the Church’s approach for more than seven centuries prior: prelates and bishops were of a general mind that heretics and non-believers might be stripped of their prerogatives and social positions, but they could not be touched in their persons; for, to quote St. Ambrose, “you do not constrain any man to worship against his will,” or again St. Theodore, “the Church does not punish with the sword.” The use of burning here — a punishment which was never previously connected specifically to heretics — is telling: there was an evident eschatological element in all of this, a conviction that these men were destined for hellfire (along with, incidentally, a literalization and a materialization of “hellfire” itself which is foreign to original Christian theology). What we see at Orléans is precisely the outgrowth of a view of salvation and damnation which would make violent reappearance at several poignant moments in the Roman Catholic Church in the following centuries, and which verged on heresy, insofar as it suggested that the eschatological destiny of human beings could be known and judged by mere men. So I will agree with you fully here, Gem, that this moment in particular, though smaller in scope than some of the others we have been discussing, is truly terrible, and ominous as a sign of the development of Christendom, particularly in the West.

Having touched here on the distinctions between the East and the West, I feel constrained to respond to something you have said: “Ive grown weary of your repeated assertions that this behaviour exists only AFTER THE SCHISM.” I do not claim, and I do not believe I have ever claimed, that the Catholics somehow have a monopoly on atrocities, or that the Orthodox as such have clean consciences, or that nothing wicked ever happened before the Schism. I wanted to concentrate on the first millennium simply because I wanted to see to what extent your critiques apply to the Church to which I belong, rather than getting lost in disputes about this or that moment in strictly Catholic history. On the other hand, as I have repeatedly asserted, I have tremendous respect for the Catholics, despite my concerns regarding certain Catholic dogmas and specific developments in the Catholic world over the last millennium. I count medieval Christendom, as against your extremely modern obloquy, as the apex of the history of Europe as Europe, and I count myself fortunate that I came of age in a time in which its mythological and symbolic way of thinking had not yet been totally extirpated from the education of the young. The testimony of individuals like @retiredtwitteruser above are quite sufficient, I think, to show that, though the Catholic Church is entering a moment of increasingly clear crisis, it is still in innumerable individual cases a benefactor of human souls. I honestly believe that a man would be better off joining even today’s Catholic Church, than throwing himself to the chaos and madness of the rampant sola scriptura attitude — attitude which is almost even refuted by the bewildering plethora of totally incompatible beliefs to which it leads those who embrace it. For, as you have rightly said time and time again, “by their fruits ye shall know them.”

At the risk of repeating myself, I want to be absolutely clear on this point: as a student of the ancient world, human nature, and political philosophy — not to mention as a Christian — I am very far from believing that there is any “golden period” in human history when violence and injustice magically ceased to exist thanks to right belief. It is precisely for that reason that I think those who reject the Church, or what they strangely call “organized religion,” are embracing a momentous folly. I regard the Christian era, on the whole, as showing a level of humanity, morality, and charity, that cannot be found almost anywhere or any time prior; but I am also well aware that Christendom was peopled with human beings, that human beings possess free will, and that free will can be, and was often, hideously abused. I absolutely reject idealism in politics, precisely because I love justice; each man of us must wade toward God through the messiness of human life, our political and religious leaders more than anyone; and the moment we believe it possible for mere men to “walk over the waters” here, is the moment we begin to sink. The entire grotesque totalitarian sickness of our thoroughly idealistic modernity bears me witness in this.

To my eyes, it seems that it is rather you yourself, Gem, who are tendentially inclined toward a certain dangerous “idealism”; for you honestly seem to believe that if the right beliefs regarding the Scriptures are promulgated, one can legitimately expect all abuses, at least at the higher level of society, to suddenly cease. Thus, when you see bishops or kings committing crimes or blunders, your immediate response is to condemn the whole of the hierarchy and epoch surrounding them as corrupt and mendacious. But this is an absolutely unreasonable canon. The utopic vision you present above of what might happen if men turned their eyes to truly reading the word of God — “then the spirit of Yeshua would live in the world and the new earth would be upon us” — seems to me not only inordinate, but outright perilous; for from this view, it takes only a step further to conclude that wherever this new earth has not yet arrived, then men generally are somehow wilfully blinding themselves and clinging to the insincerity of their hearts.

With that, I close this first section of my response. As for “doing my own research,” it is precisely in the light of this research that I can say with confidence: I still see no evidence of Church-mandated, Church-led, or Church-sanctioned “genocides,” nor of “millions” of individuals being “burned” for heretical beliefs. Genocides — millions — burned: These are your words, Gem, which you have used again and again. I appreciate a touch of rhetorical hyperbole as much as the next man, but you have elevated yourself to the position of teacher, and should be wary of misleading your pupils, who place their implicit trust in you, and might not always know when you are speaking literally and when you are exaggerating for effect.

On the other hand, if I have missed something which justifies your use of such strong language, and if you are not too fatigued of me to attempt to educate me, I stand open, as always, to being shown the path to the truth.

@JBL

You originally claimed we needed an Church which was nearly incorruptible in order to maintain faith. you stated:

“everywhere the Church has risen to power, it has demonstrated the same remarkable resistance to the corruptions that power so often brings.”

This statement is patently a-historical. Church corruption is well documented. How many children need to be raped, and how many people genocided as “heretics,” before we can admit the Church has not shown a “remarkable resistance to the corruptions of power.” The beloved Pope JPJ, while canonized as a “saint,” is now known to have protected countless pedophiles in his time in power in Poland. These facts were silenced and surpressed, the voices of the victims threatened with death and shunning in their society, with some dying in dubious circumstances during his reign as the “infallable mouth of God.” Only now, some 20+ years after his death has this Truth, in a world more open in its speech than has ever existed since the 200s AD, have these accusations come out and then been verified by tremendous corroborating evidence. In 1500 years, it is certain Catholics will only see JPJ as a wonderful miracle workins saint and will pray to his Idol AKA “icon,” and none of this little of this “sidebar,” of his endorsement and aide to child rapers, will be left in Church records.

We must reasonably assume that Catholic The Church, as any powerful and rich organization, and especially one which possessed the monolithic power to make or break kings and kingdoms for ~1400 years, to sell indulgences for admission to heaven, and to murder and repossess the property of anyone brandished a heretic, has a vested interest in painting its history in its own favor and towards its own narrative of holiness.

Moreover, the Papyrus trade collapsed in the 600s AD, making paper a highly precious commodity in the early middle ages, hence why its called “the dark ages.” Not only because of a backsliding of technological advancement, but also because there is a collapse in the amount of primary source evidence of the era, of which there is no nearly unassailable evidence that the Catholic Church destroyed all that opposed its narrative.

A good example are the writings of Iranaeus from Southern France, which discuss the gnostics and their texts at length as vile and semi-demonic heretics. These writings by Iranaeus have now been shown, in relationship to the primary source Nag Hammadi texts found, to be outright fabrications, lies and embellishments, which can now safely be classed as a form historical slander against threats to Proto-Orthodox Catholic Power, painting them as demonic and evil.

How is it possible that a man in southern France, spends time at length in his writings detesting the Egyptian Gnostics, and there are almost no primary source texts of this widespread group available to us in modernity (and essentially none before the 1950s)? The only decent cache of them were found at the southern tip of Egypt near Luxor, far away from Catholic power (Rome/Constantinople did not excercise effective control in the Southern Egyptian Dessert outside of trade posts on the Nile), buried in the sand from a plundered tomb? It leads to the conclusion that these texts were categorically destroyed across the empire, and likely by those in control after the 4th-5th century; we have tons more papyrus from ancient Egyptians in 3000 BCE than from Gnostics? It defies the archeological pattern, and given the lies

Simultaneously, the literacy and writing rates of the era of around 500-1200 AD are less than 10% of the population, and in many places at essentially 0% among the serfs, who were bound to tracts of land, and represented the vast majority (~75-80%) of the population of the era. The terrible atrocities against the serfs are not attested in Catholic writings at all, and have only come to light through extensive modern archeology. The Catholics understood the same rule of Ma’at as their Egyptian predecessors: What is written will become considered to be true in the annals of history. We find this same pattern throughout history, such as many an Egyptian stone wall claiming that some battle was a “magnanimous victory” for their Fire-On (embodiment of horus Pharoah), while archeological and all other primary source evidence shows otherwise. Only the Pharoah and his initiates, subservients that pledged fielty got to inscribe on stone walls; this is why all of the inscriptions about Akenaton, as well as the hyksos, have been chisseled out and broken.

The extant documents you have cited regarding the Church’s atrocities come almost exclusively from the church’s own initiates walled up in monastaries, or who had a clearly vested interest in upholding the image of “holiness” of the organization for which they had pledged lifelong fielty, and which they owed their living to. In fact, we find that as literacy rates increase to closer to 12-18%, and writing becomes more extensive in Europe in the 11-12th century, the sudden appearance of significant attestation to the atrocities of the Catholics. Are we to believe that suddenly, just as writing among non-church associates makes a come back, that so to do the Catholics magically become a highly violent “burn em at the stake,” type organization? The correlation between the appearance of documents from non-church writers, and the burgeoning attestation to Catholic violence speak volumes.

In light of this reality, The rationalization of patent Genocide, Rape, and Murder, the discounting of these actions, I find striking. You claim to have “great respect,” for the Catholic Church; how may one respect an organization that touts itself as holy and that has raped millions of children? How may one respect a “holy” organization that aided H1tl3r and his cronies in mass genocide? How many one respect a “holy” organization that burned thousands upon thousands of innocent people as heretics and witches? It is reviling to have respect for an organization with such a history so filled with atrocities; I do not respect an organization that engages in, profits from, and/or turns a blind eye to genocide, murder and rape. As someone whose ancestors have been hunted by this organization en masse, who still lives in fear, I find the erudite academic claims that discount this well documented history untenable.

In your arguments here you discount every piece of historical evidence in one form or another, nitpicking at every source finding whatever manner you can to downplay the importance of well attested, long-lasting and widespread decrees of genocide, rape, and profiteering from a Church that still to this day controls Trillions in Wealth and takes pleasure in raping children. You single handedly claim they didn’t kill 100,000 under the decrees of Theodora, call it an exaggeration, and then hand waive it away as a simple political move. It is a clear example of a genocide committed by a ruler under the sanctioned authority of divine rite of your pope, who is supposed to be “infallible.” What of the contemporarily attested stoning of the first two founders of the Paulicians at the hands of Eastern orthodox Christians? I suppose those were just bad apples…My point here is that you seem to require extraordinary historical attestations, and demonstrate an extreme bias in favor of your church; where I am certain you accept traditions and beliefs which have been shown to be total fabrications, while downplaying the importance of its vile, disgusting, and murderous ways over its history.

Many of these examples I have given you, which comprise only the most obvious, were perpetrated by Emperors/Kings who themselves were coronated and deposed/excommunicated by your Church and claimed “divine right,” as sanctioned by your Church. In this overwhelming historical context, the “seperation of church and state” argument you are making is dubious at best. Those who make and depose the king under the supposed authority of “god” (a word that means Ba’al God, the devil), are responsible for the actions of those they sanction. It is laughable to believe that the emperor’s men were slaughtering Paulicians in town centers while the powerless and hopeless church pled for their lives. The Church’s bishops and authorities were often involved in sanctioning this violence, and most of the soldiers were publicly professed Catholics.

Where was the excommunication and outrage from your church at the death penalty decrees, appropriation of all property, removal of citizenship and temple burnings, against the Manicheans, Origenists, Gnostics, Isis-ra-elis (take a look at the mass synagogue burnings in the 5th-7th centuries) and Paulicians over the first millenia of the Church? These groups all share a common thread: they threatened the consolidated and monolithic power of the Catholic Church over the Roman and then Byzantine State. Using demonization and accusations of “heresy,” against your enemies is a well attested historical fact of the Catholic Church long before the schism, and one which used to keep power for the powerful. Today we see the same type of stuff with the woke heresy movement. Beware of the virtue signalers and the false pious.

Your own church (and yourself) have heavily touted the martyrdom of their church leaders, their position as an oppressed religion that “overcame.” A substantial portion of the claims of martyrdome by early bishops of Rome and other early Catholic church leaders has no contemporary historical documentation or evidence whatsoever.

There is a clear later attempt at revisionist history by fabrication and/or large embellishment of the narrative of the Catholic Church’s creation by “victimhood/martyrdome,” perpetrated by a church which murdered millions over its lifetime. As you well know from today’s wokisim, often those that loudly and publicly create victim/oppression narratives are actually the ones victimizing others.

Let’s examine some of the highly fabricated martyrdoms claimed by your Church which now form the basis for a largely rewritten and fabricated history of the “overcoming victim.” We will see this pattern continue over a very long period of time; the wholesale fabrication and embellishment of an early church leader martyr/victimhood history with essentially zero contemporary documentation or archeological evidence, that develops after the Catholic Church becomes a sanctioned authority. We will see this pattern continue; the wholesale fabrication and embellishment of an early church leader martyr/victimhood history with essentially zero contemporary documentation or evidence, that develops after the Catholic Church becomes a sanctioned authority. In modern Psy-ops, this is called “Historical Narrative Control.” H1tl3r was a master of it, and it is a weapon of Occult Mind Kontrol used for Luciferian power. In light of the absolute dirth of evidence for this martyr narrative, and the church’s desire to cement a claimed unbreakable connection with Yeshua the Martyr through Petros the Martyr, it is an obvious piece of fabricated narrative, much in line with other historical examples of the like.

1) The martydom of Pope Anacletus, the 3rd Pope (supposedly) in the 80s CE, is attested to by the Roman Catholic Church, but has absolutely no contemporary or near contemporary documentary Evidence whatsoever. The earliest evidence of this comes 300 years after his death under the Roman Catholic Church documents.

2) The imprisonment and banishment of the 4th pope (supposedly) Clement I in the late 90s CE by Trajan, later supposedly “tied to an anchor,” is only attested from sources and tradition which developed in the 4th century AD, with no evidence whatsoever beforehand. The oldest documents mentioning Clement I make no mention of these facts at all.

3) The 5th pope Evaristus, in the 100s AD is attested as being “Coronated in Martyrdom” at length in the Liber Pontificales of the 9th century AD, but nowhere in any source beforehand are these facts found. Another fabrication of The Catholic Martyr Narrative to Psy-op its adherents.

4) The 6th Pope Alexander I in the 110s AD was long said to be a Martyr, and is still said so in many Catholic documents, based on later semi-near contemporary sources which only mention a name “Alexander,” and make no mention of his place in the church or pontificate.

5) The 8th Pope Telosphorus in the 130s AD AD, is said by Iraneus (who we know is open to lying and advancing false Catholic narratives) to be a martyr. No other documentation whatsoever of his martyred status.

6) The 9th Pope Hyginius is said to be martyred circa 140 AD, except there is not one single ancient source which attests to this fact.

7) The 10th Pope Pius I is said to have been martyred ~150 AD, except the first mention of this is in the Roman Breviary in the 15th Century AD.

8) The 11th Pope Anicetus is said by Catholic Tradition to have been martyred in the 160s AD, except there is no historical evidence whatsoever.

9) The 14th pope Victor I is reputed as having been Martyred, except there is no contemporary or near contemporary historical evidence.

10) The 16th Pope Callixtus, is declared to be a martyr in the 220s AD, dying during a riot. However, there is once again no contemporary evidence for this, the first mention being made, once again, in a psuedo-epigraphical (that is a later forgery falsely attributed) Acts of Callixtus undoubtedly written after 4th century AD after it becomes the official state religion.

11) The 17th pope Urban I, has been venerated as a martyr in 230 AD. It is now clear that he most certainly died of natural causes. Another example of the shining record of lies and historical embelishments of the Church’s narrative.

This goes on and on, and it all wreaks of fabricated Narrative regarding a consistently touted martydom narrative as a sign of the Church’s divinity. Given the church’s obvious willingness to lie and create psy-op narratives to make itself look good, how then shall we contextualize the sudden appearance of unassailable evidence of Catholic Atrocities along with writing and literacy outside the Catholic Church itself? You are too kind to a band of liars and murderers and your bias shines through.

You are willing to hand wave away contemporarily attested genocides and persecutions, for which there is also significant archeological evidence, and yet you proudly have touted this extraordinary martyr history for which there is absolutely zero evidence, nor documentary or archeology, and which is now shown by a plethora of evidence to be a wholesale fabrication as a holiness mind control psy-op.

Once this church seized state sanctioned power, it simultaenously set about fabricating its own narrative of holy martyrdom, and then ruthlessly and brutally surpressed any “heretical” descent. It was founded under an emperor that was a solar worshipper clothed in solar symbolism, who murdered 4 members of his own family for power, and whose own son murdered every single male relative he had while professing to be a Catholic “Christian.” It’s later emperors ordained (and deposed) by the Church under Divine Rite put out decrees to murder and genocide all who it deemed a threat to its power, from Justinian to Theodora… It sold indulgences (disgusting) and continues to this day to worship Golden (the solar metal) statues (which is idolatry), and rape children while hoarding away trillions in wealth.

The hypocracy, fueled by extraordinary bias from cognitive dissonance, is stunning.

@igageharleya @thekwon

this may be of interest from a study of mythology and its infusing into the antiXristos Solar worshippers murder church.

@JBL

Let us now also consider a somewhat more attested phenomena of the extraordinary and vile history of the Catholic Church in its first millenia of tyranny: the persecution, temple burnings, discrimination, and genocide of the Isis-Ra-Eli’s and Aryeh Yehudah.

This Catholic phenomena/persecution is more attested than most other Catholic atrocities in the historical record of the period for one reason: These peoples valued education, science and writing as fundamental, and thus left records that they kept safe from being destroyed by Catholic authorities through cross-empire movement of people, information and documents. Thus we have many more documents today that have reached us in modernity, safe from the fabricated revisionist historical tyranny of the Catholics.

There is a long and well attested history of the Aryeh Yehudah and Isis-Ra-Eli’s resisting efforts by Luciferian and falsely righteous pagan rulers to assimilate them into their oppressive governmental-religious system which dumbs down the general populace and hoards knowledge among their priests and nobility. This is a tactic we see throughout history in Luciferian controlled states with monolithic priest classes, including Roman/Byzantine Catholicism. In light of the long history of the hoarding of knowledge by Liciferian priest classes and dumbing down of the general populace, we must consider it more than a mere random correlation that just as the Catholics take monolithic power, literacy rates fall and written documents disappear across the entirety of Europe.

In Babylon, these priests were called SATANus/satamus, which means “chief priestly administrator.” They wielded total control of financial accounts, administrative duties over serfs, and the coronation (or excommunication) of the king and nobility in the Assyrian and Babylonian empires, much the same as they did in the Roman/Byzantine Catholic system.

Indeed the word in Greek, Romance Languages, and English you use for Satan does not mean only adversary, but is a direct reference to the Luciferian priests, owners of the mysteries (which are really a system of transmitting mathematical knowledge), who ran the slave labour/land bound (aka SERF) work gangs of Babylon. The word “Cura,” still today used for Catholic priests in Italy, Spain and Portugal is also taken directly from the Chaldean/Neo-Babylonian word “Curu” which referred to the local priest administrator of the SATANus that brutally oversaw the forced labour gangs of Babylon and enforced the SATAMu and kings orders of oppression. There can be no doubt as to why priests today carry the same name, or spit in the face of Yeshua, who said call no man “Pater,” and they insist on being called “Pater.”

The dress of your bishops and pope, both Eastern Orthodox and Roman, is taken directly from the atire of the pagan Pontificus Maximus of Rome (a title your pope still happily wields) during his ceremonies of Isis/Hestia/Ishtar/Magna Mater/MARiduk-AMon, all of which are the “Virgin Queen of heaven.” This dress comes directly from the rites of Babylon, including a MIT-RE (which means to eMIT RE, which is light) in the shape of Dagon, red Solar crosses of the Octagon, a hat actually called a SATURNia, and golden/purple-red robes and habits. It is repackaged and rebranded worship of the detestable Virgin “Queen of Heaven.”

The direct concordance with Babylonian-Egyptian Luciferianism is all over the worship, it goes far beyond any mere coincidence:

1) They use the name for Babylonian Slave Driving priests of the “Curu” for their priests, while being called father in direct contraversion of Yeshua’s words.

2) Without any scriptural basis they worship the “Virgin Queen of Heaven” whose name is an amalgamation of Marduk-Amon. They then use the same rituals as in Babylonian Luciferianism to worship her, and they repeatedly produce artwork and create religious idolatry of her and “baby jesus” absolutely identical to Luciferian Isis-Horus statues of Ancient Egypt.

3) They wear the same Mitre (which means eMIT RE, the lord of light) as the priests of Dagon (fish, beast out of the sea) Solar Worship, while sitting on a throne with the symbolism of Tammuz of Babylon behind them.

4) They done the identical dress and symbolism of the Babylonian Luciferian priest hood and proudly display a title used for Vestal Virgin worship in Rome for 1000 years before their existence, while worshipping “The Virgin.”

5) They venerate IHS within a sun symbol, using the same Luciferian trinity as Ancient Egypt known as Isis-Horus-Osiris. Note that IHS was also found all over Buddhist writings in Tibet in the 4th and 5th century Ad, in reference to Buddha.

6) They have innumerable saints they pray to as idols (any ceramic statue or golden wall people pray to is an idol, sorry) with the same or very slightly altered names of local pagan deities, and often with the same parallels with the worship practice of those local pagan deities.

7) They have a long and well recorded history of genocide and raping children while hoarding trillions in wealth.

8) They have a long history of fabricating total lies around their own narrative of holy martyrs, most of which have now been proven to be total lies.

9) They have a long history of fabricating false “holy relics,” and using them to increase their monetary profits through idol worship and pilgrimage to these false relics, almost all later confirmed to be forgeries of later centuries made economic profit. In direct contraversion of Yeshua regarding money and worship in the temple.

10) They sold golden tickets to heaven for their own profit called “indulgences.”

11) They are responsible for innumerable prosecutions, genocides, witch burnings and oppressions against all those that failed to conform to their monolithic power.

12) They declared the Sabbath on SUNday/DOMinus day, the day of the sun, with no scriptural basis. Their church puts DOMinus all over the place, the same used for the Unconquered Sun. They refer to YHWH as “Dios,” the name of Zeus the illuminator, who is Lucifer. (Also the name Yahweh is an abomination spread by pheonicians, another infused form of Fire worship.)

13) They arbitrarily declared the birth of their saviour “Jesus,” to be on December 25th in the 2nd century AD, which is exactly the ancient pagan day of The Sun’s Return, the day of Horus Risen in Egypt, the day of Saturnalia in Rome, the Day of Ishtar in Babylon…

14) They start off officially declaring their symbol the Chai Rho, which originates in Babylon on bowls cursing people next to 666, the mark of the beast, and is a well attested symbol of the Solar mysteries throughout histories, as well attested by the artifacts and coinage of Mithradates located only a scant 60 Km from Constantinople, whose name means Mith-Ra (Solar Myths) Da’at (Knowledge.) remember they were a Mith-Ra in the shape of the priests of Dagon.

15) They declare their canonical texts to be 66 books, a clear reference to the mark of the Solar Beast. (That Sar cophogus I showed you l, gives an extraordinary mathematical function to track to Sar with 1 day of drift every 66 sars…)

16) They engage in well documented and long lasting raping of children, which beyond its vile nature, is a well known facet of Luciferianism orgiastic rites for “Illimination.” This practice was well known among the cults of Ishtar in Babylon (worshippers of Virgin Queen of Heaven), the Man-Boy teacher relationship of Classical Greece, The initiation rites of the Eunich cult of the Urigallus in Pergamum Anatolia (Worshippers of The Virgin Great Mother), And orgiastic rites of Saturn on December 24th. This is indeed the origin of the Red Wrapped gifts on December 24th to children, which were forms of bribes in return for access to their bodies, the red bring a symbol of passion and lust.

16) They persecuted the Aryeh Yehudah and Isis Ra Elis with impunity for as long as they have had authority.

This is the organisation you claim has shown “a remarkable resistance to corruption.” It’s insanity, and just absolutely false; the Catholic Church has long been one of the most corrupt organizations on the planet.

Lest my eyes deceive me, it walks like a duck, quaks like a duck, looks like a duck, swims like a duck, has feathers like a duck, Flies like a duck, has duck babies, and hangs out in ponds eating bread, but I’m supposed to believe it’s a Rhinocerous because there’s a sign that says “it’s a Rhino, we swear.” You can change the name, it’s still a duck. The point here, is that there is insurmountable evidence that Catholicism is a continuation of past pagan-Luciferian rites of Egyptian-Babylonian priesthoods, which have infused Virgin great mother worship and luciferian “reborn Sun,” trinitarianism into a system of rebranded local deities called saints.

Returning to the well documented and vile oppression by your “incorruptible church” of the Aryeh Yehudah and Isis-Ra-Elis, let’s note that this pattern of oppression was the same under Roman Catholic rule as it was under the Babylonians and Egyptians: the population is kept inordinately illiterate, while wealth and knowledge are hoarded into the hands of the El-ites.

Simultaneously, the Aryeh Yehudah and Isis Ra Elis are never willing to bend to the tyrannical impositions of their Luciferian rulers who falsely claimed to worship Jesus and his “Virgin Queen of heaven” mother (the harlot of Babylon) while The Aryeh Yehudah and Isis-Ra-Eli’s are brutally surpressed by the rulers under the guise of “heresy,” or “subversion of the state.”

The Synagogues were always centers of learning, where the common people on the day of rest were taught not only spiritual texts, but reading, writing, mathematics/geometry, astronomy, geography, music, history, and natural sciences. The very texts themselves, when read in the original language (not in the ridiculous and terribly adulterated Latin translations), contain enormous quantities of scientific knowledge, the very first 9 letters giving the trigonometric function of the profession of the lunar apsidal nodes.

@444gem, I am in the process of writing a response to your comments above, but I wanted without fail to take you up on your proposal to read the book you have linked to above. I’ve read through the first few pages, and shall continue as time permits. My thanks both for the link, and the offer.

Offering detestable incense to a detestable graven image of the detestable w***e of Babylon and the antiXristos. Now kiss the heaven idol of Horus the reborn sun… how is this not idolatry?

This is not idolatry . It is not the Virgin Queen of Heaven of Babylon (just the same title name image and likeness), it is not a Dagon fish hat. It is not purple robes of the pheonicians.

Praying to this painting of a saint three times a day is not paganism.

This is not idolatry.

They swear this is not idolatry and prayer to graven pagan images.

I now want to show you that this right, the table spread by Eastern Orthodox with the Golden Chalice (the golden cup of the harlot of Babylon mentioned in revelations 17 as:

“The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.”

This passage is a warning against Mystery Babylon and it’s resplendent Virgin Soli-Lunar worship. Here above we see the golden cup, filled with the wine, adorned in gold and purple and pearls and jewels. This leads to a well known passage which we have danced around but not directly addressed Isiah 65:11:

“But as for you who forsake the LORDand forget my holy mountain, who spread a table for Fortune and fill chalices of mixed wine for Destiny, I will destine you for the sword, and all of you will fall in the slaughter.”

In the passage the worship of those that spread tables for fortune and fill chalices of wine for destiny is reproached as abominable. This is a direct reference to the Babylonian Soli-Lunar rite, which favors the Moon over the Sun, but worships both. It is reproachinf the Isis Ra Eli’s who fell victim to this while in Babylon.

The word used for “fortune” is Gad, as in Ba’al Gad, the firey Ball god who is the Sun/Sol, and the word for “destiny,” is MENI/MANI, who is the moon, the Mono-Eye, the Money and silver coins.

The table alter laid forth by the Eastern Orthodox rite is exactly this table decried as detestable. Look below, do you not see the Sun and the Moon laid plainly for worship on the alter where the place mixed wine in a golden cup? Indeed it is unmistakable.

The deity Mani, like Sol I Mani (Mona Lisa) is a reference to the transgender and dualistic nature of the great Virgin worship as the Queen of heaven, the harlot of the golden cup, the wine of Dio-gnosis (enlightenment from Astrotheology), and is also cognate with the concept of “enumerating the heavens.” This is why they place 7 candles on the table, like a Menorah, it is the enumeration of the visible planets in the inner solar system. It is a table for Meni, a Table for Gad, a Golden table for SoliMani, who has 666 eclipses per Sar, and also filled his temple with gold on a geomagnetic point (with physioelectric aquifers dug below to potential e the effect) in blasphemy to stimulate people’s central nervous systems and make them feel wonderment they mistook for the ineffable creator.

The cross in the center represents not Yeshua’s sacrifice, as they exoterically proclaim for the unwashed masses, but Earth between the Sun and the Moon. The cross is the Mesh (geometric unfolding) of the Kube: the kube of Saturn, the kube of Ka-BAL-la, the kube of Meka (the Spirit of Meni) The kube that taught humans to measure 6 faces and 24 angles for the Earth, to make 24,000 miles (4 sections of 6000 each) then balanced with the solar and lunar year.

It is why when the pyramids of Giza are multiplied by 600*60*(6+6) they give the exact dimensions of Earth, they are the upper part of an octahedron, which is the geometric dual of a Kube. A kube gives 360 degrees on the angles of each face, just like a circle.

These alters are the table of the Ka-BAL of Babylon, the table of the apostates that worshipped Gad and Meni Isiah was reproaching, repackaged by name only. In fact it can be said that most of the Egyptian Solar Dominant Rite was subsumed into Western Roman Catholicism, while the Babylonian Lunar Rite was subsumed into Eastern Orthodoxy.

The Sun, Moon and then the Earth (the cross, which is the geometric mesh of the kube.)

Here is a basic, but well cited exposition on the deity Meni. It does not cover the depths of the Lunar Rite of the Phile Easton, children of the East, children of the Ishtar (Eastern Star). Almost all of your cathedrals are pointed to the East and prayers conducted to the East for this reason, the rising sun. They are Phile Eastons.

biblicalcyclopedia.com/M/meni.html

The word used for “mother of abominations” is yes MP for mater, and then bdelugma, like βδέλλα, which means a bloodsucker or a leech. The leech of the priests of Babylon that love the patroness of temple prostitution, who suck off the resources, energies and souls of those they deceive. Like the word “Mammon” whom Yeshua admonishes.

They take their tithe and paint the “Virgin,” prostitute in glittering gold, then pray to her idol aka Icon, and ask for more money to paint in more gold. They are blood suckers, now who possess trillions in wealth by worshipping the bloodsucking prostitute they call a Virgin.

Now, @444gem (also @A E, since these following reflections touch on our recent conversation regarding prayer to the saints; this might also be of interest to @retiredtwitteruser and @Ralphie), considering the series of images you have provided from the Catholic and Orthodox Churches — I have looked over each of them in turn, and I can say with assurance, in the case of all the Orthodox images (that is, the photographs that include only icons and no statuary), no, these are not instances of “pagan idolatry.” I cannot be so wholly certain in the case of the Catholic images, for the simple reason that I do not have access to the heart and soul of the worshipers, but I am confident at least in the case of the laypersons involved that nothing like idolatrous practice is happening here.

The Catholic use of statues is theologically incorrect and has no place whatsoever in traditional Christian (or even pre-Renaissance Catholic!) liturgical worship. It represents a profoundly forgetful misunderstanding which blurs the clear and essential distinction between icon and idol, fomenting confusion that might lead to far graver errors, and thus potentially leading souls astray. It is a practice which should be critiqued, clearly and compellingly, from a correct theological standpoint, for it is truly erroneous and misplaced — but that does not make it equivalent to idolatry. In the interest of fairness, I will hasten to add that a great many Orthodox churches as well, while they have not fallen into the error of using sculptures liturgically, makes their own share of dangerous mistakes, introducing noncanonical elements into its iconographic practice with a blithe liberty which reveals a terrible ignorance. We are all of us today laboring under the same dread weight of amnesia and confusion. But to say it again, these mistakes, however perilous in the long run and however needful of urgent correction, are not identical to idolatry.

I have noted elsewhere that the issue of iconography is a long subject, one which could easily consume all of our joint attention, but since you have broached it again, and in such a vehement and insistent way, I feel compelled to stand in its defense, and to indicate, not only why it is the precise, intentional, and theologically profound opposite of idolatry, but why it is actually an essential feature of any true, full Christian theology and practice — why, in short, the Church could rightly regard the victory of the iconoclasts as “the Triumph of the Church” over heresy as such.

I can do no more than indicate these things here in the most preliminary way, and even such an indication will be fairly long, for it is necessary first to grasp, if only superficially, the inner mechanisms of idolatry.

The Commandment against “graven images” is against the use of statues in particular, so the position of traditional Christian iconography (which does not use statues) stands already in a naturally qualified relationship to it: iconography from the start deliberately expresses itself in a form which is anti-idolatric. Furthermore, the Commandment itself is not against statues as such, as is clearly borne out by the biblical passages I have already cited verses above (e.g. Exodus 25:18-20, Numbers 21:4-9) where the use of statues is not only tolerated, but is actually commanded by God Himself. The case of the bronze serpent in the desert, the Nehushtan, is of especial interest, because this same statue, which God commanded Moses to build for the sake of the Israelites, was destroyed long after by King Hezekiah (2 Kings 18:4), when its original purpose had been forgotten and the Israelites (all too characteristically) had fallen into idolatrous practices with it. These passages show that the problem is not the statue as such, but the use of the statue in a certain kind of religious ritual practice, one with certain definite aims and intentions.

To be properly understood, this Commandment has to be situated in the pagan practices of the time. These practices, for all their variety in divers places and times, universally centered on two things — the altar and the idol; which is to say, sacrifices (ranging from bloodless sacrifices of wheat cakes and the like to blood sacrifices involving animals, up to human sacrifices, depending on the place, time, and specific intent of the rite) before statues. I will not get further into the specifics here, but the aim of these practices was to “incarnate” or “embody” a spiritual power (that is, a demon) within the statue, for the purposes of propitiating this being, or, ideally (from the point of view of the performers of the ritual), mastering and controlling its powers. You and I both know, of course, that the latter hope is but so much myopia and hubris. Idolatrous practices culminate always in the augmentation of unruly human passions, the confusion of human ideas, and, finally, the progressive possession, depersonalization and destruction of the human being by demonic forces.

It is this, not the mere existence or use of statues as such, which was repugnant to the God of Israel, and one can well understand why. (It would be inexplicable and tyrannically arbitrary if God were to prohibit the production of images or statues to man as such, particularly given the fact that our capacity for plastic mimeticism is one of the things that renders us specifically human.) Statues, rather than images generally, are proscribed, because the pagan peoples that surrounded Israel almost exclusively used sculpted cultic images, not painted. (There were, of course, two-dimensional images of gods; but these were not used ritually.) The reason for the use of statues rather than other kinds of images was precisely because the aim was to provide a body, a dwelling place, a physical incarnation for a spiritual being — to embed it, to enhouse it, within the world. Put otherwise, the statue, as an object within the physical world, was meant as an initial doorway into the embodiment and thus physical empowerment of spiritual beings and forces.

With all of this in mind, before the photographs you have posted can justly be accused of idolatry, one would have to ascertain whether the statues involved are intended to ritually integrate the demonic and the physical in a perverse and unnatural union.

Barring further information about these particular settings, I would exclude even the Catholic practices from this charge, since the necessary mechanisms seem to be lacking. The liturgical sacrifice continues to be of God and to God; the language in which the rites are couched continues to be the traditional Christian language. I will allow that there might be something, in this limited context, to your critique of incense use, but that will depend again on the spirit of the participants, and I think one must be cautious here. Even if a case can be made for this malpractice, the most that could be said, I think (which would already be grave enough, if it could be substantiated) is that, on certain occasions, this statuary has been brought into Catholic practice with the conscious aim of eroding the Catholic traditions and of outrageously and mockingly introducing (albeit yet inert and ineffectual) occult elements of pagan practice in the great Western Christian Tradition.

On the other hand, the strictly canonical iconographic tradition (whether in East or West) is to be excluded from idolatrous intentions uniformly and as such. In the first place, its careful and deliberate employment of stylized and non-sensual two-dimensional, rather than three-dimensional, art points man away from the “thisness” and “hereness” of our world, and toward the realm of the sanctification of the body and of the soul — the Way which was made possible by the Incarnation of our Savior. The iconographic tradition could not have existed without the birth, passion, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ; it is emphatically and essentially Christocentric, and points man ever toward right belief and practice. (Its Christocentric qualities are intentionally and continually repeated throughout the array of canonical iconic conventions in a great variety of aspects that I will not list here; suffice it to note that Christ is ubiquitously present, even “visually,” in every icon produced by a well-trained and spiritually prepared iconographer.) Iconography, rather than seeking to trap or empower a disembodied spiritual being within a physical form, shuns the very idea of “incarnating” or controlling any being, spiritual or otherwise, for it recognizes, implicitly in its very form, that God alone can embody, God alone can incarnate, God alone can command. The statue is forbidden in the use of Orthodox liturgic practices, because it is understood that the only living statue is man, and God alone can create living men. The idol, on the other hand, is dead or inert, as the Scriptures never tire of reminding us.

Careful comparison of the idol with the icon thus makes us aware that we are dealing, not only with two different practices, but two absolutely opposed practices. The idol seeks to visibly and physically represent, in false and lying ways, what is invisible and essentially non-physical; the icon represents that which can be represented (the incarnate Christ), but refuses to depict that which cannot be represented — namely, God the Father or the Holy Spirit. While the idol accepts and demands sacrifices, the icons of the Church participate in giving the one immaculate Sacrifice to the absolute and unrepresentable Creator alone. While the idol represents, empowers, and enhouses beings who have, and should have, no inherent ability to move and act in the world, the icon remembers and presents (makes present) the one God who inherently has the power, not only to incarnate Himself in the flesh and to move and to act in the world as He sees fit, but even to accept death at will and to raise Himself from the dead when He so desires. While the idol blurs the distinction between the physical and the spiritual, to permit and abet the devastating entry of demons into the physical world, the icon places both body and soul in their rightful relation, neither denying nor confusing the twin aspects of God’s Creation, but showing how they were supposed to be related and how they are supposed to be integrated in the human being. While the idol makes a mendacious image of demonic beings, hiding their true abysmal ugliness behind beautiful or powerful veneers, the icon renders a true image of Christ, thus showing man (the image and likeness of God) how to renew the divine image that rests enfeebled and darkened in him, and how to regain the divine likeness which has been lost to him. While the idol entangles man ever more totally in his worldly desires, the icon elevates the soul, chastens the passions, and brings man nearer to God.

Iconography could not be a more perfect antithesis to idolatry; it represents in every way the defeat, the overcoming, and the substitution of lying idolatry with a true and divine art. The iconoclast, for his part, not only fails to understand this total inversion which the icon effects of the wicked and demonic practices of pagan idolatry, but even, in his zeal to do what he perceives to be the will of God, actually participates in the Devil’s final desperate attempt to cut his losses. For since Satan, after the Resurrection, could no longer enforce his desired ritual practices on the Church, so he fell back to obscuring at least one of the windows to salvation, destroying the artistic representation of holiness, and in this way blinding men just a bit the more to the truth of the world and to his own secret machinations. Every time a true and correct icon is destroyed, it is as if a blow were taken against the spiritual and physical eyes of those who might have looked upon it and, rightly contemplating it, grown nearer to God.

…

Having said all of this, I do not know to what extent you will disagree even with the fact that I am reading the above biblical episodes, such as the bronze serpent, as actual events. Your sophisticated interpretation of this serpent, for instance, along with your passing remark that you might have been charged as an Origenist for “allegorical readings” of the Bible, lead me to wonder again if you think that the account of this serpent is actually nothing but an indirect and occult way of speaking of mathematico-astronomical truths about the cosmos — if you think, in short, that there was no physical bronze serpent at all.

If that is the way you are interpreting the text, all I can say is that it seems to me on the face of it a profoundly untraditional, unnatural and even irrational way of reading the passage, and I would have a number of questions to pose you about your approach. But, to avoid wasting anyone’s time with queries that might be misplaced, I will for now leave the matter at only the single most pressing: are you claiming that at least certain passages of the Bible are to be read wholly mathematico-allegorically, and that the incidents these passages report never actually took place at all?

@thekwon @JBL

So glad you were able to read Coleman’s book, which is an excellent piece of documenting the occult history of both the US, the House of Tudor and the VatiCain.

Several more of Leo Lyon Zagamis books do a good job of documenting the dark secrets underpinning the prostitute of Babylon’s priests:

1. Confessions of an Illuminati, Volume III
Espionage, Templars and Satanism in the Shadows of the Vatican

Does a good job revealing the dark and occult Egyptian MAGIk hiding in the Vatican, and unearthing the origins of the darkness hiding in the catacombs beneath the feet of the Holy Father.

More abominations from the priests of the prostitute of Babylon, who train their adherents to make every excuse imaginable for spitting upon the word of YHWH. A pillar, which represents the phallus of Osiris, next to the golden dome, which represents the genitals and womb of the great mother, the prostitution of Babylon.

@JBL

A link to more info on the Virgin goddess of the underworld, another form of the prostitute of Babylon for which the VatiKain in names itself.

What do we find behind her face, what the abominable priests of Babylon that carry her name now call the cross of Jerusalem and wear on their lapels. Her head is surrounded by the same Seven candles (hepta) as we have seen painted on MARdukAMon the transgender Mona Lisa they pretend is somehow related with Yeshua.

They are even named for the great prostitute, while sitting on the seven hills of Nimrod as foretold in revelations.

How many blasphemies and abominations must these Luciferians commit before we can agree they are not “remarkably resistant to corruption,” but instead part of the antiXristos themselves. Their very name includes Kain, and the prostitute of Babylon…

@JBL

Look below at Vatika/Vanth holding her chalice to make drunk the masses. She was the Roman equivalent to the Luciferian centaur ChaiRon. Yes the western church uses the very name of the angel of death, the prostitute of Babylon and goddess of the underworld (See: The descent of Ishtar), while the East uses the Greek equivalent of CHAIRHOn, the ferrymen who fishes mens souls at death

An excerpt regarding Vatika, and it’s origin regarding the wine to make the eoasenta and unwashed masses drunk with paganism.

“Vatika had several other related meanings in ancient Etruscan. The name was not only associated with the goddess of the Underworld.

Vatika was also a bitter, not well-tasting grape used by a peasant to produce cheap wine. The grape and a weed with the same name grew on the slope. When people ate it, they experienced hallucinations, and the word passed on into Latin as a synonym for “prophetic vision.” The Latin word ‘vaticinor’ means “foretell, prophesy” from ‘vatis’ – “poet, teacher, oracle.”

They sit on the seven hills of the city of Nimrod, they are name after a pagan goddess, their symbol is named after a pagan centaur of Astrotheology… It is endless JBL, but as Yeshua foretold you have been deceived by the wolves in sheeps clothing.

You have tried to dismiss all of these exact similitudes as mere coincidence, but it is far too much to be hand waived away by anyone with eyes to see that it is a Farse. If it were truly about worship of Yeshua and YHWH:

1) one does not name themselves by the prostitute,” Vatika or her Greek Luciferian pagan deity equivalent CHAIRHOn.
2) One does not name their priests the same as the slave drivers of Babylon, the Cura
3) One does not worship the prostitutes statues
4) One does not make multitudes of graven images to the prosititute and the reborn sun (identical to much older representations) emerging from her golden cup
5) One does not amass trillions in wealth
6) One does not erect obelisks
7) One does does not co-opt the dress of the prostitute of Babylon’s priests’ ritual dress
8) One does not take the prostitutes head priest’s titles (Pontificus Maximus) and declare himself infallible,
9) One does not make tons of golden buildings that are all architecturally an homage to the golden cup of the prosititute of Babylon and her genitals.
10) One does not make exact use of a symbol from Babylonian demonology and Mithras(the ChaiRon) who is the Myth of Ra the Solar Mysteries
11) One does not wear the crown of the beast of the sea Dagon called a Mithra,
12) One does not take the star of Ishtar and put it all over its images it makes of the prosititute of Babylon with her golden cup and the reborn sun.
13) One does not have their priests be called father against Yeshua’s words
14) One does not rape children, oppress, genocide, witch burn and pillage
15) One does not fabricate history of false martyrdoms to claim false holiness
16) One does not Rape Children
17) One does not swing incense before detestable alters of the prostitute of Babylon and set the tables of Gad and Meni
18) One does not subsume pagan deities, and their worship rites and rename them saints, and then pray to their graven images
19) One does not pray to the east of the rising sun
20) One does not make false relics to sell in the temple, against the words of Yeshua
21) One does not hide Nazis and help them take the German treasury to South America
22) One does not arbitrarily place the birth of their Savior on the day of Horus the reborn sun, Saturnalia, and Ishtar the w***e of Babylon (December 25th)
23) One does not incorporate the Egyptian Luciferian trinity of IHS and Solar worship symbols everywhere.
24) One does not build a chapel called the SIS-Tine, the chapel of SIX
25) One does not canonise 66 books in honor of the number of the beast
26) One does not claim themselves infallible and the only mouth of YHWH and otherwise declare his mouth forever shut.
27) One does not sit in its power on the seven hills of Nimrod in a church in the shape of a phallus and womb.
28) One does not prohibit the original scriptures use.
29) One does not lie to its sheep constantly, and deceive them.

It is endless @JBL, endless are the abominations of your church you claim is “remarkable resistant to corruption.” They are purveyors of endless spits upon Yeshua’s name and the scriptures themselves. They are the antiXristos.

Look at them worship an idol engraved with the cross of Ishtar the prostitute of Babylon. It is an abomination.

The Virgin hugs the sun. Solar worshipping blasphemy.

(@444gem, cont’d from above — hoping, at least, that my first comments, which are presently under review, are posted eventually…)

The extant documents you have cited regarding the Church’s atrocities come almost exclusively from the church’s own initiates walled up in monastaries, or who had a clearly vested interest in upholding the image of “holiness” of the organization for which they had pledged lifelong fielty, and which they owed their living to.

In the first place, I have also cited documents from numerous pagans who do not mention any such atrocities, even though many of them were writing under a pagan emperor (Julian) and all of them were able to publish highly critical ideas about the Church in an era which, by your description, all published material was controlled by Church censorship. There are also, in the case of the Paulicians, Muslim sources that corroborate the Roman ones; I don’t suppose the Muslims were under the thumb of the Church?

As for the remainder, let us suppose (though it seems to me evidently unreasonable) that all the Christians then allowed to write were so fanatically intent on preserving the image of the Church that whatever they say must be regarded as inherently unreliable. What then? Where are we to get our information of this swath of the past, if the only reports we have at hand can’t be trusted? And how can we conclude anything at all from what we are reading, either for or against their statements?

Your habit of casting a blanket of radical skepticism over every document we have at our disposal seems to me to render any approach to historical events impossible.

In your arguments here you discount every piece of historical evidence in one form or another, nitpicking at every source finding whatever manner you can to downplay the importance of well attested, long-lasting and widespread decrees of genocide, rape, and profiteering.

I have in no way “discounted every piece of historical evidence”; to the contrary, I have assessed all the evidence I could find with some care. In most cases, my problem is precisely that there is no evidence, at least that I have been able to find, to support any of your figures, except the 100,000 Paulician deaths ascribed to Theodora. And even despite the fact that I have come up empty handed here, I still have not even “discounted” your figures; I have simply asked you to show me where you are getting them. I must suppose you have evidence I know nothing about, if you are so certain in your claims that you feel you can assert mortalities which are magnitudes greater than anything I have ever seen proposed.

As an example of potential evidence: if so many of these “decrees” exist, surely you can point to the passages in a few of them that avowedly support “genocide, rape, and profiteering”?

Having said that, I will readily allow that I am guilty of “nitpicking,” if you mean by this that I am attempting to approach these sources with a critical eye, a readiness to accept or reject specific points as I reason it correct to do so, and a willingness to think in terms of historical contexts rather than anachronistic standards on the one hand or prior commitments on the other. You, Gem, are doing the same thing that I am doing; nearly all the information that we have about the events we are discussing comes to us from none other than the same Church whose statements you seem to regard as being universally incredible; so you are constrained to decide what you will accept (e.g. the historicity of certain occurrences or the existence of certain historical personages) and what you will reject (e.g. the motivations ascribed to certain actions or the assessment of how events actually played out).

Let us take the figure of 100,000 as an example. You accept it as a minimum value, though I know you would readily discount any number of other statements by the same author who has recorded it. Is this nitpicking on your part? For my part, I do not think it is. You have your reasons, as I have mine. I submit that neither of us is nitpicking; but we are coming at this (as I have said from the beginning of our exchanges) from two radically different positions, which will naturally strongly color our conclusions. I have already indicated why this particular figure should be taken with a hefty grain of salt; I could say still more on that, and I hold by my statements. But I am not simply rejecting this figure because I find it uncomfortable (I have in fact admitted that a tremendous number of people lost their lives in this event), or because it is only found in a single source; I am calling its precision into question because it is impossible to credit, given other known facts about the historical moment. I have qualified it, not discounted it, and then only for a number of specific, articulable reasons connected to the context in which it appears.

I know no other way to reason about these matters than that, apart from accepting and rejecting historical accounts with perfect arbitrariness, on the basis of my loyalties — the which kind of jingoism I am honestly attempting to avoid.

Now, this specific figure aside, my broader point was that this event seems to me to bear all the marks of a military campaign, not a witch hunt, and I believe the historical evidence, such as we possess (from both sides of the Roman-Muslim border, I might add), supports me in this. I agree with you, incidentally, that the groups that were singled out in this way were considered threats to the power of Christendom; that is almost precisely my point. If the Paulicians had been innocuous to the social and power structures of the Empire, they would have been left largely alone, as most heretics were. You have criticized me for considering them military targets. Now, if there were a large group of people on the periphery of your nation, hostile to your faith, recalcitrant against your laws, who raided your villages and attacked your caravans, and who made alliances with your enemies toward the destruction and overthrow of your kingdom, precisely how would you characterize them?

As but an incidental note: the pope is not “my pope,” and my Church does not regard him as infallible, even in the limited ex cathedra pronouncements that the Catholics would defend as such.

What of the contemporarily attested stoning of the first two founders of the Paulicians at the hands of Eastern orthodox Christians?

Did I ever claim that Orthodox Christians are necessarily good, pious, and moral men? Did I ever fall into the error of supposing that a leader of Church or state in the era of Christendom would be perforce honest and just? As I recall, I was even the one to first broach these murders, precisely when I denounced them as being immoral, un-Christian, and politically imprudent.

The question is not the involvement of Orthodox Christians — there is no uniformly “holy group” under God’s sun, and never can or will be, prior to the Parousia — but of the Church as a whole, and the quality of its influence on events. If your view of the Church were correct, I would expect to see precisely what you have claimed happened through history: wave on wave of violent persecutions resulting in the massacre of hundreds of thousands of heterodox individuals over the course of these centuries. As I judge the evidence, what we see instead of this unholy juggernaut, is isolated incidents of fractious individuals or groups receiving in some cases unduly harsh penalties at the hands of a state which had hitherto, in its heathen days, been bloodthirsty to the extreme. Not precisely an enduring bloodbath, all considered.

My point here is that you seem to require extraordinary historical attestations, and demonstrate an extreme bias in favor of your church.

This may well be, Gem, I freely admit it. I cannot make a claim to a neutrality which I do not believe it is possible for any human being to attain. I could as easily say that you demonstrate an extreme bias against my Church; but what does this amount to, other than observing that your beliefs on these matters, and the presuppositional framework in which they are nested, are at radical odds to mine? That is precisely the reason our conversation is of such great value to me that I continue to spend time on it that I could well be putting to dozens of other things; for I see in the depth of our disagreement the opportunity to arrive, at the very least, at keener clarity on our respective positions and the true disagreements which stand between us, and, at most, nearer to that truth which, I honestly believe, both of us earnestly seek.

Now, having said that, I do what I can to avoid the temptation of cheerleading for my Church, and I strive to acknowledge the truth when I see it. Of all the charges that you have brought, I find those against Theodora’s acts contra the Paulicians to be the weightiest. I am convinced that a large number of individuals died in this event, certainly thousands, perhaps tens of thousands. Standing at a distance of almost a millennium and a half from these deaths, and basing my evaluations on the scanty evidence that has come down to us, I do not know how to rightly judge the actions of Theodora; but I do know that it is almost even senseless to reject the entire sweep of Church history on the basis of this single military action taken by a single empress, and one who hardly stands as spiritual representative of that Church even if she did commit the atrocities you are claiming.

To lay my cards fully out on the table, I will also say this: given my bias, and my membership in the Church, I am inclined to believe that Theodora, who has been sainted by my Church, likely acted as was necessary and servicable to the defense of the Empire, and hence also of the Church. I will sooner give her the benefit of the shadow of the doubt, than reject, on the slender basis of the same, a thousand years of accumulated Tradition, and the one guarantee we can possess that we might possibly be able to access God’s word on earth.

However, I have changed my worldview more than once in my life, and I could be dispossessed of this view if I were given sufficient evidence to suggest to me that the Church were so universally false, wicked and vile as you have claimed. As of now, that evidence is precisely what I have yet to see. You will forgive me, I do not doubt, if I am unwilling to upend my beliefs by the mere vehemence of your claims.

(N.B.: I have only now seen your list of crimes against the Jews. Please allow me the time to duly weigh your statements there.)

In this overwhelming historical context, the “seperation of church and state” argument you are making is dubious at best.

This seems to me a fruitful question to pursue. To what extent can we rightfully claim that the actions of the emperor at any given moment had the imprimatur of the Church? I would argue that the two bodies ideally worked in harmony, but often enough fell to odds, and I think this is borne out by the history we have received. But my grasp of the time period in question is far from expert, and I might be missing something.

Your own church (and yourself) have heavily touted the martyrdom of their church leaders, their position as an oppressed religion that “overcame.” A substantial portion of the claims of martyrdome by early bishops of Rome and other early Catholic church leaders has no contemporary historical documentation or evidence whatsoever.

In every case but the last of those you have listed, your claim amounts to nothing more than this: there is only a single later source attesting to events. But is that alone sufficient reason to reject their veracity? If your strict historical skepticism in these cases were carried to its logical conclusion, just how much of our knowledge of history would we have to consign to the dustbin as being witnessed by only a single, otherwise uncorroborated source? I am confident — though I might be wrong — that you do not apply such stringent standards to extra-ecclesiastical documents. You are, for instance, quite ready to accept the validity of the Nag Hammadi texts, and even in light of them to denounce St. Irenaeus as a liar. What precisely is your canon of judgement here?

We are back to the question of evidence. You begin from the premise that anything published by an Orthodox Christian — not just that material published through official Church channels, but anything by any Orthodox Christian whatsoever — is a work of propaganda, and that whatever is handed down by the Church Tradition is to be called immediately into question, if not discarded as so many lies and obfuscations. I find that premise shallow and crude, at least as it is meant as a general approach to be applied to individual cases in the absence of supporting evidence and careful historical analysis.

Yet you proudly have touted this extraordinary martyr history for which there is absolutely zero evidence, nor documentary or archeology…

Are you claiming, as you seem to be, that the entire tradition of Christian martyrs is a fabrication as such? That the martyrdoms of St. Stephen, St. Justin Martyr, St. Perpetua, St. Pothinus, to name but a handful of celebrated cases, were also Church inventions? That the multiple recorded exiles (and in some cases, death in exile) of men like St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil are historical counterfeits? That the “white martyrs” like St. Antony the Great and St. Macarius of Egypt never actually withdrew from the world, in the name of their faith, to live in hermitage and self-imposed exile? For it is to such persons and events that I am referring when I speak of the martyrdom of the Church, and its continual resistance to the siren song of power.

@JBL

I only now realized that the photo didn’t upload regarding some of the symbolism ripped from Gujarat Hinduism. The quantity of Pagan idolatry and rituals in the symbolism, in combination with the enormous amount of non-scriptural doctrines that nearly all line up with ancient luciferianism and paganism and occult myster rites are too much to ignore, period.

1) the saints who are taken directly from paganism with sometimes so much as a name change and the practices surrounding these saints being identical to ancient pagan deities.

2) The names of the church ripped directly from the luciferian mysteries “Vatikan” is the goddess of the underworld and it is Vat (proto-Isis) and Kain, the murder

3) The symbols are all ripped directly from the Luciferian mysteries, particularly the Solar Mysteries, including the Solar Cross, the Incense carriers, the architecture of the churches (they are all a dick in a v****a, seriously…), the hand symbols from Buddhism and 666 enlightenment worship, the vesica pisces (which represents the v****a and sacred geometry, which they do not whatsoever mention), Their hats come directly from buddhism, the Chai-Rho is taken directly from Mithras Da’ates, and Babylonain-Anatolian Pagan Solar Worship. The name “Chai-Rho” is taken from the Chai-Ro-on, the reaper ferryman of the underworld in greek paganism.

4) Wearing a Myth Ra, literally a reference to the solar mysteries. The pope carrying the solar cross.

5) using IHS inside Sun Symbols, which comes directly from the Egyptian luciferian trinity Isis-Horus-oSiris, and is found all over the world with the symbol of the Fenacian order of the Solar Bennu Bird.

6) The worship on SUNday directly against the scriptures

7) Placing the words DOM and DOMinus all over the Churches, which is undeniable a Solar reference.

8) The attire of the pope and priests is taken directly from the babylonian priest hood of Kybele and Janus

9) The name of the detestable priests comes directly from the babylonian Luciferian priesthood (cura/Curu)

10) The Pope takes his name from the solar serpent of chaos aPOPE/APOPhis(great)/

11) The maddonna and child paintings and statues the pope and patriarchs kiss are taken directly from Isis Ka statues in Egypt,

12) The title “queen of heaven,” is ascriptural and taken directly from Luciferian great mother pagan worship of Isis/Ishtar in Egypt and Babylon

13) They call this “Queen of Heaven”an immaculate conception, one of the Luciferian pagan mysteries titles used for the “great mother,” as I show you on the seals below

14) The eastern orthodox priests often carry the two headed staff which is called “Suray,” and is the ancient Solar deity of Hinduism

15) The eastern orthodox patriarch often wears a Myth Ra with a two headed eagle and a two headed marry, which are symbols going directly back to Ninurta, the warrior deity who becomes MarDuk, the solar deity in Babylon

16) The Quantity of Child Rape (its not just a few bad apples, your own sanctified pope JPII was friends with child rapers) which is identical to the ancient Luciferian orgiastic sexual rituals of Ishtar/Isis well recorded.

17) Placing the Pheonician Tau of Tannit (child sacrifice goddess of pheonicians), Osiris, and Shiva all over their stuff, which is openly known to mean 666 on their official garb.

18) Selling in their churches (I’ve seen it across the world.)

19) The spreading of square tables/alters with the sun and the moon emblasened in gold and silver and the 7 candles of the planets, a practice taken directly from the tables for gad and meni, sun and moon, which is detestable.

20) The selling of indulgences (this is not fractious behavior, thepopes had millions bowing at their feet throwing money to buy their way into heaven because they had made europe such an abominable place to live.)

21) The use of the title Pontificus Maximus, taken directly from the name of the high priest of the Solar Mysteries of Rome. The very deceleration of “infallibility” of any human, especially those that sell indulgences, is an abomination.

22) The symbolism of the “Queen of Heaven,” wearing scarlett/violet an deep blue, with a golden chalice, the cup of abominations warned of in revelations 17.

23) The quantity of scriptural commandments ignored and desecrated

a) “call no man father,” except for the priest Curu (

b) “build no obelisks” except outside numerous churches and the capitol

c) “make no graven images” except the pope kisses the graven images every SUNday and so does the patriarchs

d) “thou shall not murder” except those witch trials and inquisition were not “fractious” nor was that genocidal maniacism by theodora

e) burning incense at alters that is detestable to YHWH in huge quantitites

f) “remember the Torah” except they ignore the use of the original Hebrew scriptures whatsoever ,

g) worshipping on SUNday while it is commanded the Sabbath is on Saturday

f) Selling in their churches (I’ve seen it across the world)

@JBL

Let’s look at the abominable behavior of your Church “remarkably resistant to corruption” across its history. Let us consider that none of these can stand up to a “bad apples” argument, nor considered the wanton behavior of a few small factions.

24) The entire Church promoting a “temple economy” based upon producing outright fraudulent “relics” across the church’s entire power base, as far reaching as Spain to Armenia. It is pure, unadulterated fraud, propagated for indoctrination purposes, and to create economic benefit to the church and its monastaries based upon that fraud which compels people to move.

25) The Church’s tremendous role in religious genocide and burning people at the stake, including anyone who dared opppose the Church’s corrupt doctrines following the protestant reformation

26) The church’s support to the nasis before, during and after WWII, including helping the nasis rise to power, and then escape with the german treasury to South America. This includes Pope Pius XII Denying Eyewitness Reports Of Mass Execution During The Holocaust

27) The church’s well-known role in drug trafficking for several centuries, the monetary fruits of which is still enjoys today. See The Committee of 300 for greater detail

28) The Pope ordered inquisitions throughout its empire which resulted in millions of senseless brutalities based on “heresy”

29) The Suppression of the Cathars for “disobedience,” the fabrication of evidence against them and the prounecement of a holy war that resulted in their total genocide.

30) The innumeraable trials, and brutal tortures and executions against all it viewed as threatening to its power, such as Joan of Ark, Giordano Bruno, Caterina Terongi, John Hus,

31) The systematic cover up of child rape. What we now know confirmed likely consists of a tiny fraction.

32) The entirety of Pope Boniface VIII’s reign full of sensless brutality, depravity, and vile greed. When a pope does it, it isn’t “fractious,” its official policy.

33) The burning of people such as William Tyndale for translating the biblical texts into vernacular.

34) The desecration and burning of corpses (look it up, it was a common practice by the pope and high ranking bishops.)

35) Pope Alexander VI’s depravity, including Alexander and his family gleefully threw chestnuts on the floor, forcing slave women to get on their feet like swine and oink like pigs, then offering prizes of fine clothes and jewelry for the man who could fornicate with the most women.”

36) Declaring Judaism is a grevious sin throughout the inquistions.

The list goes on and on, for an organization “remarkably resistant to corruption,” I’m very hard pressed to see how under papal decree The Church has helped nasis, burned millions of “witches,” raped millions of children, burned people for translating the bible, ordered mass genocides against dissentors, profited immensely from the drug trade and sold “get into heaven for a price cards,” is anything other than an organization wicked and corrupt to its core.

@JBL

I’ll try to address these going from most obvious to most on need of explanation:

1.) The role of the king and the priest.

This is patently a-historical. It is a fabricated myth I often run into when discussing with the indoctrinated of the Cattle-Lick fable of its false piety.

When we examine the cultural cases that surround the creation of the Catholic Church, the papacy and it’s relation to political power of kings/emperors is in fact identical to all of its predecessors or consumed.

The power structures of the empires controlled by a monolithic priesthood, in nearly all cases separated the Priest Class (purveyors of the Luciferians mysteries) from the King and the Know-Bility (those with official political power and some ability to access hidden knowledge if they oblige the wills of the priest class.)

Case 1: Dynastic Egypt

In no case were the Pharoahs of dynastic Egypt “priest kings.” They held absolutely no priestly authority. Just as in cattle-lick Europe the pharoah-kings were vested, under the coronation of the priests as “Horus Risen,” but all religious duties and temple functions were held in the power of the Memphis (Lunar worshippers) and then after Khnum-Khufu in the Heliopolitan priests (Solar worshippers) from the city of On.

From the 4th dynasty on, the Pharoah always selected under threat of death his Viceroy (later in Rome called the “Master of Horse.”) from the Heliopolitan priesthood, and this viceroy and his priests exercised all administrative and real authority over the empire and it’s people. Innumerable internal, external texts as well as unassailable archeological artifacts show the priesthood commanded all of the power within the empire’s borders, while using the pharoahs as state figure heads in charge of expanding borders and bringing in new wealth and slaves from former lands.

The pharoah-king nominally controlled the military for this purpose, but always with the knowledge that the priest class, if their wishes were opposed by the king, could turn the soldiers against the king as a heretic or a “demon possessed.” It happened often, and this is the very story of the mythical Sol-Amon (Sun King) with Ashmodei as found in the Hebrew tales: a king who is possessed and impostered Sol-Amon for many years who is nearly deposed until he makes good on the eyes of the priests some years later.

This dethroning of pharoahsby the Heliopolitan priesthood AKa excommunication occurred through innumerable dynastic changes (most often directly instigated by the Heliopolitan priests under a heresy plot over more than 2000 years) of Egypt.

The easiest and most notable of examples is Akhenaton, when he tried to remove these priests cult authority and institute himself as a priest king of Atonism, which is a solar monotheism identical to the later Mithraism or Sol Invictus cults. Akhenaton tried to become the priest king of atonism and to do away with all the local priests attached to local deities, what the cattle-licks now call “patron saints.” His whole family was brutally murdered thereafter and a dynastic change imposed to restore the priests authority.

Not only did the priesthood of Heliopolis coronate the pharoahs as a “Horus risen”, they also deposed them at will (aka the cattle-lick excommunication), and this resulted in a pattern which mirrors identically that of post Cattle-Lick Rome and Europe: constant fractures of power among each gnome or a group of gnomes (smaller administrative states of Egypt, as all the fiefdoms in Europe of Rome under the Dux, literally the Marduk…)

Whenever the Pharoah opposed the will of the Heliopolitan priesthood, large internal power struggles and bloody struggles ensued shortly thereafter, much as in Europe post cattle-lick rise to power: these luciferian wolves in sheep clothes, the children of Kain, follow the same pattern of the degradation of the society into a fractious set of political states and constant bloody power struggle, which serves the priests to divide and conquer at will their subjects they are Ki farming, as cattle. The pattern echoes exactly that of the late Roman Empire into Europe.

The stronger the priest class grew in Egypt, the greater the degradation the state of mathematics and sciences, and the greater the supersticions and abominable acts of bloodshed for the priests benefit. The archeological record does not lie regarding this.

@JBL

Here is a basic breakdown of the papal cross and its hidden symbolism.

The “papal cross” is the pheonician (the Enochians, children of Kain) form of the letter Samekh. The name Samekh comes from Sam-esh, the solar deity of Babylon.

This Cross is the tool used for creating Riemann sums in order to approximate the elliptical functions, which can be integrated as two parabolas, in order to develop integrated mathematical functions that track the elliptical orbits of the planets. Without this level of knowledge the anti-kythera mechanism wouldn’t have been possible, nor the innumerable Babylonian tablets that show they predicted eclipses hundreds of years into the future within minutes of accuracy.

This is why his name is the aPOPE as the serpent the aPOPhis. It is a representation to the serpent of movement. His very name is an admission of being the representative of the great dragon of winding elliptical movement in the cosmos on Earth. And this is one of the unassailable connections with Babylon; the hoarding of knowledge and the use of their mathematical tools as supersticious indoctrination devices whose true meaning is kept from the public. Either these priests and Pope are ignorant fools propogating mathematical tools as “sacred objects” or they are hoarding a bunch of mathematical and scientific tools and not telling their secret.

Also, the whole burning people for not saying the Earth is flat thing, that was at the decree of the Pope and cardinals, it was not “Fractious behavior.” And it wreaks of the hoarding of knowledge.

This is a direct example of how the priesthood is a complete continuation of the power structure of the Luciferian Solar mysteries of Babylon. While the priests hoard this advanced mathematical/scientific knowledge, they made the know-bility go through the silliest of supersticions to obtain only a fraction of it (all the rituals in Catholicism are paralleled in Luciferian initiation rites in Babylon and Egypt), and then they turn and use all of these symbols to propogate supersticious nonsense to indoctrinate the masses. I assure you, they call Cattle, which is indeed the origin of the name Catholic: it is as I have been saying a “Cattle-Lick.” A place to keep cows happy til they get fat and slaughtered.

@444gem
@JBL

As you both know, my posts here on VL are far from on par with anything you both have been submitting here. Further, my knowledge of Scripture is very weak at best, as is my ‘Ancient History of Everything’, so I ask that you please pardon me for any mistakes you may find on these matters within this comment.

If we could go further back into the human timeline and cut deeper into these religious discussions here…..I am curious about a few things…..I will also use the words God and Jesus, as old habits die hard, however, I know you both understand what I mean….

So with that said….

Was the establishment of a ‘religion’ even a purview of God? Or, did man simply take the opportunity to try to ‘outshine’ his neighbor for God’s ‘favor’, and begin to ‘interpret and coalesce’ God’s simple (sacrificial) requirements, into a form of organized ‘rules and dogma’ leading to the rise of ‘religion’?

Meaning…how did ‘organized religion’ even become established? When in the human record did this happen? Did man try to improve upon his simple relationship with God by creating rules and regulations, for himself and/or others to follow for worship, or was it dictated to man, by God, to set up an organized structure for worshiping him?
 
If the former, then the roots of corrupt, power-hungry men influencing and controlling ‘access to God’ go back to the dawn of civilization…and therefore no religion is exempt from the staining of corruption and therefore everything derived by man in the name of God could be now considered suspect….

If the latter, then we now have positioned fallible man into performing the role of being the designated interpreter for God… inevitably leading to the pitfalls which that entails – notably the tainting, twisting and biasing of sacred texts.

Moving along,…

We can also ask the same questions regarding the establishment of a religion on Jesus’ behalf. Did Jesus specifically instruct founding an organized religion in his name? Was this part of Jesus’ purview as well or did man once again, try to improve upon Jesus’ simple teachings and create an organization designed to manage his teachings?
 
If neither God nor Jesus expressly requested formal religions to be established in their names, then should we now consider the entire pantheon of both Judaic and Christian religions, sects, and off-shoots to be blasphemous? Should we then apply this same blasphemous logic to every other religion and form of spirituality that is not centered on God?
 
How does one even define God and does God mean the same to me as to a yak herder in Tibet? Where do we draw the lines? Who is to say who is right and who is wrong?

Perhaps we are all trying to make more out of our relationships with God than need be to the exclusion of ourselves and humanity as a whole.
 
If we were created in his image and likeness, and he alone is the Divine Creator, the Divine Mind of All That Is, then surely, he would have given each of us the ability to ‘know him’ directly, and individually, without middleman or religion…..therefore, would not our hearts and minds alone be the gateway for such a simple yet profound relationship?

If so, then God would be with every man, equally, and within each man’s own capacity for understanding him……and therefore no one man, nor one race, nor one religion, nor one sect would be greater or ‘favored’ over another…

…we would all simply be God’s children….

Unless of course I’m wrong….

Best…..

@Igageharleya

Thank you, AE! I am very curious as to what these boys will have to say….

……either way,, it’s been quite the ‘Ancient History of Religion and Symbolism’ class….hope there’s no pop quiz? 🤔

My best to you and your family!

I am sure you are correct with that prediction! LOL!

In the meantime….while we wait for a reply, I’ll get us some popcorn…

Best….

Many thanks for your (as usual incisive and thought-provoking) questions, @Ralphie225!

In trying to address them, I could of course just list the go-to verses that are generally used to justify the advent of the Church, but I recognize this will be futile. For it is usually not the case that we base our spiritual beliefs on our interpretation of Scripture; rather, we interpret the Scripture in the light of our spiritual beliefs. I believe that this is indeed the whole problem, and the main reason why a Church is not only necessary, but inevitable.

So let’s make a different approach to this problem. Leaving aside for the moment the question of whether the Christian faith is even an “organized religion” at all (it actually understands itself totally differently than this), and taking “religion” in its widest acceptation as a body of rules, rites, practices, etc. uniting persons of shared belief, I would like to ask you, what is the alternative to religion? You might say, each person ought to read the Scripture and extract what he can from it. But this leads to many problems. I will note only two of the most important.

First, this approach is unsustainable in the long run, for it will always happen that charismatic and ambitious individuals, reading and interpreting the Scripture for themselves, will come to the conclusion that the Scripture is calling for the founding of a religion, and, gathering around themselves a group of “faithful,” will form up a new “church.” There is no stopping this; it is a natural human tendency, for human beings are, to follow Aristotle, social animals, who naturally group together in organic hierarchies. It seems inconceivable to me that God, who made us as we are, would fail to provide us a form of worship suitable to our nature — one in which the elements of the faith are preserved, taught, clarified, transmitted, encouraged, and stewarded within the context of a social group (the original Greek for “church,” ekklesiastikos, comes from the Greek word for “assembly”).

Second, if we say that each person should independently read Scripture, we are begging the question: which Scripture? For the “Scripture” is not given to us just so, like a watermelon or a stone; it is itself the organic product of a historical process of selection and rejection of elements, undertaken by the Assembly, the Church — a differentiation of that which comes from God’s inspiration and that which comes from man’s errors. If we reject the Tradition of the Church, we are left without any way of even determining what books ought to be considered as Scripture, and what not. Each individual is thus called upon, not only to interpret the Scripture according to his own feeble lights, but even to decide on the canon of Scripture. But then, we have thrown out priest, pope and patriarch, only to make every single person into a kind of private priest, pope and patriarch all his own. One might well enough hope that God in such a case will tend each person’s views and keep each one of us from falling into egregious error, but that hope is all but refuted by the astounding variety of totally incompatible interpretations of Scripture, many of them very wild indeed, that have arisen from precisely this kind of approach in our days. Without a Tradition, we are left rudderless, left adrift in a sea we know not how to navigate, beneath an overcast sky and without any tools but our merest, all-too-human intellect and instinct to guide us.

If this is really the alternative to “organized religion,” we are in trouble indeed. But I think there is another alternative: not religion, but Church Tradition.

You say:

“If [religion is man-made], then we now have positioned fallible man into performing the role of being the designated interpreter for God… inevitably leading to the pitfalls which that entails – notably the tainting, twisting and biasing of sacred texts.”

The problem you are pointing to is real and profound. But I believe that the Tradition of the Church exists precisely to give us the only possible solution to this problem; the Tradition is both the repository of divine wisdom and the key to its understanding — a vessel of truth untouchable by the “interpretations” and the “conclusions” of mere human beings. Lacking that, we truly do not know how to differentiate between the god of the yak-herder, the god of the Romans, the god of the Luciferians, and the true God presented to us through Christ. Without the Church, we are all of us essentially pagans living beneath a de facto universal pantheon, each cleaving to his own favorite personal deity out of purely human preferences and purely human desires, and quite possibly being led into perdition by sly malevolent powers in the meantime.

For my part, I do not believe that God would leave us abandoned in such confused and chaotic stead. As we have faith in a benevolent and philanthropic Creator, who directly acts in and on the world, there is no alternative to a Church, an Assembly of the faithful, nourished by a carefully protected Tradition extending without rupture back to Christ and continually renewed by the Holy Spirit — a Church founded by God and through God, but formed by humans and for the benefit of humans, meant to teach us how to interpret Scripture, how to live as God sees it is right for us to live, and how to become the human beings that God has made us to be.

Does any of this this in any way speak to your concerns, Ralphie? I fear I may have wandered off of them…

@JBL

Now onto number 2:

2.) Sacrifice. Christianity is the only faith to offer a deathless sacrifice. Rather than offering up food or a killed animal

I agree that The Aryeh Yehudah (not Cattle-Licks) explicitly put an end to all blood sacrifice in their scriptures, and that one of the principle messages of Yeshua is to cease all sacrifice.

However, just because in word they have ceased sacrifice does not mean they at all stopped in practice. And this of course is the biggest problem with the indoctrinates of the cattle licks, they follow the false pious words and ignore the actions. The practical reality is the the cattle licks simply rebranded blood sacrifice to the great mother “Queen of Heaven.”

The history of glorified martyrdoms by church power figures, a tremendous number of which are fabricated lies, is indeed designed to glorify this practice and to increase the likelihood of rank and file adherents to give their blood for the church, a history you yourself have touted as to be glorified.

You will find in the book I gave you several sources showing that Gratian refused to be the pope emperor “pontifices Maximus” at the behest of the church leaders (in contradiction to your first claim…) and then they made Damascus I the first papal “pontifices Maximus” after they sacrificed 300 women in front of him. That doesn’t make modern rewritten and largely fabricated history books, but several contemporary source documents are there regarding it, more evidence than for any of these innumerable false bishop of Rome martyrs.

Constantine your own founder used his family as sacrifices while being pontifices Maximus, as did his son.

And then there’s the real trail of blood: the inquisitions, witch trials and heresy burnings. The death toll is certainly in the millions. The innumerable number of “heretics” burned is just unfathomable, and as I said before just because you brandish someone a heretic or a witch before burning them, doesn’t stop making it a blood sacrifice. It is indeed the blood the prostitute of Babylon is drunk on in Revelations. An easy example is the case of Jon Hus whose crime was to ask the same thing I am asking now: show me where in scripture these abominable pagan practices are found; they aren’t. (please don’t break down this case for me, it’s but one example of millions.)

They declared people heretics against the Queen of heaven MarYam/Ishtar and then burned them alive in the town square. This is blood sacrifice period.

A Curu of Babylon called “father,”dressed in Babylonian priestly garb, holding the pagan title of Pontificus Maximus, protecting pedophiles, and spewing detestable incense to the Queen of Heaven’s graven image. All on direct contraversion to the commandments of Yeshua and YHWH.

This is the antiXristos, those who replace every commandment of scripture with abominations and false piety shrouded in excuses to deceive the masses.

Awesome info, kwon! I knew Yeshua’s birthday’s nearly here, but I’ve got to learn to start looking up.